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Telugu_times
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 07:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kish double century
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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 07:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Getafix:

mee post chusi chinnappudu DD lo oche Surf commercial Kavitha Kapoor gurthochindi.. kavithaji maangaye




:-)Aur abhi kisiki dhulayi bhi nahin ki :-)Just kidding :-)

Ishan:

As you said, I am still young for that.




Very true, let me qualify that " May you find the happiness you are questing when the time is right " :-)

Yes philosophy is interesting because it is a creative thought process...There are a myriad ways to look at/approach the same point ...as long as you leave yourself open to ideas/suggestions :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Getafix
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

Getafix,

Haar ke rukne ka sawaal nahi uthta, himmat buland ho to kaante bhi phool lagte hai



Anand.. mee post chusi chinnappudu DD lo oche Surf commercial Kavitha Kapoor gurthochindi.. kavithaji maangaye
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Ishan
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

but my post 5029 still holds true for unconditional love


Ok. We will discuss about it sometime later.

Anand_n:

Would love to talk more with you and Nisarga , but I cannot go deeper without giving too many personal details


Parledandi, when time comes we will talk.

Anand_n:

May you find the happiness you are questing


Thanks. Neninkaa practical spiritual pursuit lo ki complete ga digaledu. As you said, I am still young for that. As of now, I am happy as a householder. Its very interesting to know different ways of thinking about philosophy.

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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

My initial statement implied love with out non-attachment




Unconditional love - yes - but my post 5029 still holds true for unconditional love :-)


Ishan:

When you diminish ego completely, that is killing.




Semantics anukondi - but there was a reason I drew that distinction .Because people attach a nobility to themselves "I killed my ego " ...That sentence is an oxymoron :-)

Would love to talk more with you and Nisarga , but I cannot go deeper without giving too many personal details :-)

May you find the happiness you are questing :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Anand_n:

but your initial statement was working for the "love" of it


My initial statement implied love with out non-attachment which I already explained in one of earlier posts.

Anand_n:

Negation means you deny something..It is a deliberate action.. it has to be perceived in the first place to be denied:-)


I agree.

Anand_n:

So "You can kill ego" is incorrect if you cannot do it directly.


Incorrect. Indirect killing of the object by the subject is still killing.

Anand_n:

Yes ego can be diminished indirectly , but then it is not you killing it


When you diminish ego completely, that is killing.

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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 02:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

You can work with out emotional involvement with out being in drudgery.




There is no love without emotional involvement :-) yes you can mechanically do work without feeling anything - but your initial statement was working for the "love" of it :-)

Ishan:

Negation of ego is the effect and not the cause.




Negation means you deny something..It is a deliberate action.. it has to be perceived in the first place to be denied:-)

Ishan:

You can kill ego. Not directly but indirectly




Killing anything is an action performed by a subject. You are the subject and ego is the object :-)So "You can kill ego" is incorrect if you cannot do it directly.

Yes ego can be diminished indirectly , but then it is not you killing it - it is you refusing to acknowledge its presence, or acknowledging something bigger than it so it diminishes relatively into insignificance :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 02:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:


If people did not get that high from that emotional involvement in their work, it would be another chore and drudgery


I disagree. You can work with out emotional involvement with out being in drudgery.

Anand_n:

.. You cannot negate when you have no desire


Disagreed. Negation of ego is the effect and not the cause.

Anand_n:

YOu cannot kill your ego - if you have to boost one part of you to demolish another


Another disagreement. You can kill ego. Not directly but indirectly .

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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 02:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

cant recall which one is it




Its not a song :-) Its Sufi poetry ...

Thank you for the wishes and wish you the same...Introspect on my post 5029 a little - why do we do the things we do :-)

Somewhere inside self-negation translates into the ego of " I am able to deny myself " .. You cannot negate when you have no desire :-)

YOu cannot kill your ego - if you have to boost one part of you to demolish another - you are left with ego2 instead of ego1.The second one is even more dangerous - what philosophers call the bulletproof ego :-) Its a dead end on the spiritual journey :-)

Getafix,

Haar ke rukne ka sawaal nahi uthta, himmat buland ho to kaante bhi phool lagte hai :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 01:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

Khudi ko kar buland itna
Ke har takdeer likhne se pehle
Khuda bande se ye pooche
Bata teri razaa kya hai :-)


Thanks for the song, cant recall which one is it . Well, even though I disagree, if you think that is the correct path for your self-realization, I wish you good luck with that!

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Getafix
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 01:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ruk jana nahin tu kabhi haar ke
katon pe chalke milenge saaye bahar ke
o raahi o raahi
--
naa vanthu ga 190th post.. ekaa badtha hi jaayen chale chalo
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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 01:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

Define self-fullfilment.




Khudi ko kar buland itna
Ke har takdeer likhne se pehle
Khuda bande se ye pooche
Bata teri razaa kya hai :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Nisarga:

t's myth that we use only 5% of brain.


Nisarga, I was not talking about anatomical partitioning of the brain meaning that only 5% of our cerebral cortex is used and rest of the brain is useless. No. Thats definitely a myth and already scientifically disproved. I was talking about the partitioning at the intensity level. That is the reason for giving CPU example. When our CPU says 5%, its using 5% of its capacity not the 5% of the structure. Its just like we don't use all our muscle power normally but only during intense exercise. I was more referring to the physiological aspects.

Nisarga:

but based on the different thoughts the structures may change.


I agree.

Nisarga:

the interesting point is which is the primary driver !? is it the neural structures that constitute mind or it is the mind !?


I think its one of the big challenges in current neuroscience research. The gut feeling says its both ways, but I guess we will have to wait until the hypothesis is properly tested.

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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 09:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Nisarga:

it is possible to get absorbed in those activities while believing them as immoral. that is the beauty/ugliness of human mind.




That is the key, isn't it ? When you act believing it to be wrong , there is conflict - and when ther is conflict you cannot immerse yourself in anything - because a part of you keeps your head out of the water ...

Immersion is only possible when you throw conlict out of your mind :-)

Nisarga:

the state might be like animal consciousness with just enough self to separate itself from the environment.




Reminds me of a converstion with my teenager.He asked - why is it easier to draw animals than humans - and I said cos you have to capture emotion on the humans ..so he asks how come animals have the same stoic expression on their face irrespective of the action they are performing ..and I say probably cos they just go about what they have to do without getting overly excited/emotional about it ...He laughs and says why can't people be like that

Nisarga:

noticed a change in your stand




Thought you would - your restraint in not asking was very admirable :-)The rational side of me now needs to find out why and how I got so lucky:-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 09:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

You can work with out keeping the benefits arising from it in your mind. Unselfish Love doesn't expect anything in return.





Feeling that love/drive is a benefit in itself :-) The hormones released by that emotion cause a high that is beyond any psychedelic drug :-)

If people did not get that high from that emotional involvement in their work, it would be another chore and drudgery ... so I definitely do not agree that is done without any personal gain in mind :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Nisarga
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 02:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

The concept of immersion - Immerse yourself in art, love, or pursuit of an ambition, or God to the exclusion of all else and you acheive the same result




what about getting immersed in immoral activities :-)? it is possible to get absorbed in those activities while believing them as immoral. that is the beauty/ugliness of human mind. does this also lead to the same result. I don't think so. if not what is at work subconsciously? that is why I would say the result is kind of premeditated and is out of mind itself.
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Nisarga
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Anand_n:

I would restate that to say easily attainable/on demand bliss




yes. actually I don't think anybody really seeks the ideal enlightenment which is more likely to be like a dead state. it is suicidal to the thought/mind/self to attain that state because that state entails death of the very seeker(thought/mind/self). OR the state might be like animal consciousness with just enough self to separate itself from the environment.

So now the actual state that is sought is close to the ideal one having the self reduced and capitalizing on the experiences arouse in that state. ones well versed with attaining it...they may get it on demand :-).
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Nisarga
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Anand_n:

But for me , the perspective is significantly different from when we started ..then I was in search, not now...can't say more than that on this forum :-) But I will be eternally grateful to you and many on the DB for helping me along that quest




yes. i have noticed a change in your stand :-). thought of saying this after seeing some of your posts in previous threads.

I always appreciate your ability to get to the crux of any problem/argument quickly.
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Nisarga
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Ishan:

Generally, we use 5% of our brain. Training our brain to experience the state of eternal bliss makes all the unused synapses in the neural networks connect among each others. This is like running a program which uses 100% of CPU.




it's myth that we use only 5% of brain. mind does not actually have visibility into neural networks. it does not have conscious causal efficacy to alter the neural structure. but based on the different thoughts the structures may change. the interesting point is which is the primary driver !? is it the neural structures that constitute mind or it is the mind !? this is the big old mind body problem i guess....if it is resolved convincingly many issues may gets settled. my take is neural structures may have ultimate say :-)
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Ishan
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

to me the second statement is the epitome of selfishness - no one except you has to derive any benefit out of your work for you to love it



Incorrect again. You can work with out keeping the benefits arising from it in your mind. Unselfish Love doesn't expect anything in return.

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Anand_n
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

If the result is selfish in nature, s/he can not be considered as a yogi.



Ishan:

Work for the sake of your love for the work,




Define selfishness - to me the second statement is the epitome of selfishness - no one except you has to derive any benefit out of your work for you to love it :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Anand_n:

You may increase your probability of success


That's precisely is my point. Nothing is guaranteed in life, all you have to do is to put your best foot forward.

Anand_n:

Not necessarily - I agree with Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev's quote - the material could be self-fulfilment too


Define self-fullfilment.

Anand_n:

The love of the work comes from a perception of the result at the end anyway


Incorrect. If the result is selfish in nature, s/he can not be considered as a yogi. I cant comment on warren buffet or Einstein because I don't know their motivations behind their work.

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Anand_n
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Ishan:


It really depends on how you define 'pathless'. I say the path is yoga.




No guru guarantees that if you follow a certain yoga regimen for the prescribed duration you will reach enlightenment :-) That is why it is pathless.You may increase your probability of success but there is no guarantee.Otherwise all these Gurus would be turning out enlightened souls by the thousands ...


Ishan:

There might be millions of roads to reach the same goal, but the material of the road is the same i.e. self-abnegation.




Not necessarily - I agree with Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev's quote - the material could be self-fulfilment too :-)

Ishan:

Work for the sake of your love for the work,




Why do we try so hard to define boundaries on what qualifies as karmayoga..why do you exclude working towards a goal with the love of the goal ? The love of the work comes from a perception of the result at the end anyway :-) And why the resistance against working to create wealth - Warren Buffet is a Karmayogi to my mind as much as Einstein :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 06:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:


...God to the exclusion of all else and you acheive the same result :-)
This is how people stumble on to Bliss/Truth - without consciously working towards it, without doing any spiritual sadhana


Of course yes. What you described here is nothing but Karma-Yoga, Work for the sake of your love for the work, remember the story of the butcher? But majority of the population don't come under that category. For them if they want to pursue this path, teaching the principles of karma-yoga is necessary.

However,now a days, more and more people are going for meditation form of yoga or rajayoga or kundalini yoga or kriya yoga etc which requires a guru. You can attain the same result with pure reason which is nothing but Jnana-yoga which also needs the help of a teacher but its not mandatory. One can combine all of them too if s/he is comfortable. Having a spiritual teacher will not only expedite the process but clears any doubts.


Anand_n:

..making Truth indeed pathless:-)


It really depends on how you define 'pathless'. I say the path is yoga. There might be millions of roads to reach the same goal, but the material of the road is the same i.e. self-abnegation. Any such path is yoga. Some how the definition of Yoga has become one with the meditative form only.

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Anand_n
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Elcaminocapastrino:




Chinchukokandi... you are good as you are - keep that effervescent enthusiasm for life in yourself alive ... its a gift not many have :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Ishan:

You will not negate thoughts consciously to reach that stage, but your focus on the goal will make the thoughts disappear.




This I agree - however, I believe the goal need not be spiritual - any goal you decide to pursue with that single-minded focus will get you to the same point :-) The concept of immersion - Immerse yourself in art, love, or pursuit of an ambition, or God to the exclusion of all else and you acheive the same result :-)

This is how people stumble on to Bliss/Truth - without consciously working towards it, without doing any spiritual sadhana ..making Truth indeed pathless:-)

Ivala kids temple class ki teesukuvelte introduction lo oka peddayina pillalaki cheppina nugget of wisdom.. "These classes will teach you how to be happy because a happy person is the closest to God..":-)

I think the problem is not that kids do not know how to be happy but lose that instinct as they grow up , conditioned by society, become bitter and cynical..and spend the rest of their lives trying to rediscover it like most people end up doing ...

We need ensure kids do not lose that optimism and joy they are born with:-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Elcaminocapastrino
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Ishan
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Anand_n:


So you are saying , we have use the full potential of the brain to negate the brain and experience bliss of the soul :-)

Is this bliss experienced in the physical brain or outside ?


Let me rephrase it for more clarity. Its not that we 'have' to use full potential of brain, but you 'will' use its full potential once you reach that stage. Its the default effect, not the cause. Its just because your brain will be in the intense activity. Because of this activity, energy in the form of electromagnetic radiation emanates from the brain. That is the aura you see behind the heads of the divine souls. You will not negate thoughts consciously to reach that stage, but your focus on the goal will make the thoughts disappear. Brain is the portal through which you will start this whole process and reach that stage.

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Anand_n
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Ishan:

Without brain, how can you attain self-realization?




So you are saying , we have use the full potential of the brain to negate the brain and experience bliss of the soul :-)

Is this bliss experienced in the physical brain or outside ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Anand_n:

Contradictory emo :-) using a the 100 % of the CPU, to still all activity of the brain :-)


There is nothing contradictory. Perhaps I should have explained it more clearly . Brain is the instrument here that's all and you are using it or you 'must' use it to its fullest potential to reach that stage. Without brain, how can you attain self-realization? .

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Ishan:

Are you implying that it is easy to attain the absolute bliss?




This was in contrast to Eternal bliss... I was saying you do not stay in that state eternally , but once you get there , you can easily revisit on-demand :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan:

Generally, we use 5% of our brain. Training our brain to experience the state of eternal bliss makes all the unused synapses in the neural networks connect among each others. This is like running a program which uses 100% of CPU.



Ishan:

Thoughts are annihilated at this stage.



Ishan:

all you can say is that you have experienced the most peaceful moments of your life.




Contradictory emo :-) using a the 100 % of the CPU, to still all activity of the brain :-)

Could it just be dissociating from all activity of the brain ?


Nisarga:

Yes. we/I have been rehashing the same stuff for long




:-) But for me , the perspective is significantly different from when we started ..then I was in search, not now...can't say more than that on this forum :-) But I will be eternally grateful to you and many on the DB for helping me along that quest :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Anand_n:


I am begining to question the eternal part of the equation here ...emotion is felt on a relative scale - so being eternally blissful may not be blissful at all


You are confusing with the materialistic pleasures to the absolute bliss. emotions are caused by mind and they are relative. Bliss here has nothing to do with the mind, it belongs to the soul and thats why its called as absolute bliss not relative.

Anand_n:

I would restate that to say easily attainable/on demand bliss :-)


Are you implying that it is easy to attain the absolute bliss?

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Ishan
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Nisarga:

a popular view: a state which gives bliss--eternal bliss, a state where in thought/self/ego diminishes or falls in its rhythm or tamed.

how does that state come about? is it due to the organization of brain(the inter connections of neurons at lowest level) in a certain way which gives rise this state. in this state the perceiver perceives and enjoys his own special physical state which gives him bliss.


I believe so. Generally, we use 5% of our brain. Training our brain to experience the state of eternal bliss makes all the unused synapses in the neural networks connect among each others. This is like running a program which uses 100% of CPU.

Nisarga:

is it due to a change at the cognition level itself. the thought process itself produced a particular thoughts OR the thought process itself receded giving rise to this state?


I believe tts the later. Thoughts are annihilated at this stage.

Nisarga:

how can one know about his/her state? how can it be communicated. if yes, is it not like the self itself is perceiving/enjoying its state vouching for the presence of separation and denying the union with something supreme?


I think you can not "know" this stage...all you can say is that you have experienced the most peaceful moments of your life.

Nisarga:

what does it mean by 'knowing' in this state!? does not knowing require causality? does not it contradict with the claim of unison with supreme!?


During this stage the soul experiences itself and nothing else. There are no two things like ego and soul at this stage, all you see is one.

Nisarga:

ok. there might be a corresponding physical state for every perception or knowing state. the important question may be how this state comes about or actually how the higher order state ( i mean the knowing state or experience or cognition level). if the determinant is biology of the body or the thought process that mends( by a method) itself to reach that state...there may not be any reason to attach mysticity to it.


There is no mysticity...but the process or the journey it self is perhaps the most difficult in the universe.

Nisarga:

there is no nobility or mysticity or Godness about enlightenment or spirituality..it is very much Worldly.


Nobility..hmmm..its individual's opinion and relative. There is no mysticism here...the goal is clear and there are several routes, just choose one and take the path. Enlightenment has nothing to do with god. Even a staunch atheist can achieve that state.

Nisarga:

what else can it be? if it is something we cannot perceive/understand or beyond our senses or cognition then, forget about the problem communicating or proving its existence, what good or bad it is first off? does it's existence matter if does not come in the realm of our understanding. how can we make use of it or take benefit out of it!?


The benefit is that you will have broken the eternal cycle of life and death...making yourself unbound with the effects of karma...

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Anand_n:

I think we touched this once before.




Yes. we/I have been rehashing the same stuff for long :-).
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Anand_n
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Nisarga:

there might be a corresponding physical state for every perception or knowing state. the important question may be how this state comes about or actually how the higher order state ( i mean the knowing state or experience or cognition level). if the determinant is biology of the body or the thought process that mends( by a method) itself to reach that state...there may not be any reason to attach mysticity to it.

if the state is due to something external then it cannot be attributed to ones actions or lack of actions. it's more of luck or coincidence or what it is called.




I think we touched this once before..:-)

There is a theory that evolved souls find spiritually suitable wombs...

If we reverse that ,that spiritually inclined souls come from similarly inclined wombs , then it could just be a gene on the X chromosome, a matrilinial descent of the brain structure that predisposes one to spiritual pursuit.
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Nisarga:

a state which gives bliss--eternal bliss, a state where in thought/self/ego diminishes or falls in its rhythm or tamed.




I am begining to question the eternal part of the equation here ...emotion is felt on a relative scale - so being eternally blissful may not be blissful at all :-)

I would restate that to say easily attainable/on demand bliss :-)



Nisarga:

how does that state come about? is it due to the organization of brain(the inter connections of neurons at lowest level) in a certain way which gives rise this state. in this state the perceiver perceives and enjoys his own special physical state which gives him bliss.




I think so - the whole process of yoga, meditation I think brings about the changes in the structure of the brain to enable that state of easy access bliss without dependence on external stimuli (detachment ??) I am not sure if this is reversible which is why I keep cautioning the young householders from going too far down this path, too ealry and hitting a point of no return :-)


Nisarga:

is it due to a change at the cognition level itself. the thought process itself produced a particular thoughts OR the thought process itself receded giving rise to this state? is it due to a change at the cognition level itself. the thought process itself produced a particular thoughts OR the thought process itself receded giving rise to this state?

Does ego/self/thought present in this state? if no, in theory, how can one know about his/her state? how can it be communicated. if yes, is it not like the self itself is perceiving/enjoying its state vouching for the presence of separation and denying the union with something supreme?




Read an article from Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev - he had an interesting take - he said you either become a 0 or infinite and you will be there, you either become completely selfless(0) or completely selfish(infinite)...that is the way to eliminating that separation.

I have not seen or read about many spiritual Gurus who do not manifest some form of Ego - if only in the "my ashram", "my method" "my students" "my religion" "I am better than the next Guru" proclamations.

I agree totally - if there is no self to perceive , who is perceiving the bliss of the union ? So I think it has to be cycle of separation and union :-) Unless its the final union in death.
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Nisarga
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If one does not accept the objective reality or metaphysical reality then I don't think there a ground for him/her from where they can argue. when we argue about something the underlying assumption is objective reality against which we validate/assess our arguments or our argument or understanding makes sense only from that ground. otherwise your subjective reality is yours mine is mine...there is no argument required or possible.

I do not think we are here in DB to put forth or publish any thesis for peer review. if we are to speak only when we know completely( if it at all it makes sense) about anything we may not have anything to talk. in fact i would think if we are complete and perfect i do not think we have or need anything to talk.

I agree that there is every chance that we may go wrong in our understanding of anything. understanding is an evolving process and we may not know the flaws in our understanding unless we speak out our partial understanding.

if we really understand something we should be able to explain it in plain text to some extent from a naive man's point of view. if we just avoid it by saying like no one can understand me or up to the mark for a discussion...i dont understand why to come here first off !?we generally hide behind ostentatious display when we ourselves are not clear enough.
knowing something is knowing in terms of already known. I think every body here knows something enough to build their further understanding upon.
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Nisarga
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a popular view: a state which gives bliss--eternal bliss, a state where in thought/self/ego diminishes or falls in its rhythm or tamed.

how does that state come about? is it due to the organization of brain(the inter connections of neurons at lowest level) in a certain way which gives rise this state. in this state the perceiver perceives and enjoys his own special physical state which gives him bliss.

is it due to a change at the cognition level itself. the thought process itself produced a particular thoughts OR the thought process itself receded giving rise to this state?

Does ego/self/thought present in this state? if no, in theory, how can one know about his/her state? how can it be communicated. if yes, is it not like the self itself is perceiving/enjoying its state vouching for the presence of separation and denying the union with something supreme?

what does it mean by 'knowing' in this state!? does not knowing require causality? does not it contradict with the claim of unison with supreme!?

ok. there might be a corresponding physical state for every perception or knowing state. the important question may be how this state comes about or actually how the higher order state ( i mean the knowing state or experience or cognition level). if the determinant is biology of the body or the thought process that mends( by a method) itself to reach that state...there may not be any reason to attach mysticity to it.

if the state is due to something external then it cannot be attributed to ones actions or lack of actions. it's more of luck or coincidence or what it is called.

the state I talked about so far here might be ideal one. in reality the actual experiences or the intensity of experiences may depend on how close one is to the ideal state. these partials states may give kind of calmness and all.

when we absorbed completely in some activity for sometime...lets for example reading ..once we come out of that we feel some calmness ....some sense of accomplishment. this is so when the activity is something acceptable to the society and ourselves. otherwise it may not give same experience. so this kind of experience is more out of our cognition space only. i mean reason involved in this at least subconsciously or unconsciously.

there is no nobility or mysticity or Godness about enlightenment or spirituality..it is very much Worldly.

what else can it be? if it is something we cannot perceive/understand or beyond our senses or cognition then, forget about the problem communicating or proving its existence, what good or bad it is first off? does it's existence matter if does not come in the realm of our understanding. how can we make use of it or take benefit out of it!?
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Anand_n
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Cylonesubbarao:

I'm just asking too cool down your temper and continue with your discussions ani.




:-)I don't lose my temper ... innallanunchi chesina introspection lo vachina benefit adi - I don't get angry ...and definitely not at people on the DB ..evari perspectives, filters, paradigms vallavi..

2-3 years ago, Nisarga/IBV anukunta asked me somewhat similar questions, questioned every belief I had...I chose to try and answer those and discuss...it helped me introspect further :-)That was my chosen path...

Der's is different..I just find it surprising that after 11 years of Vedic education he still believes there is only the "prescribed" method of spiritual pursuit ...:-) But life teaches its lessons at its own pace :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Jkm
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Telugu_times:

Manam undedhi waste virginia naa?




enduku bro ala adigav ? wheeling lo iskcon temple ki thappithe waste virginia ki eppudu vellaledhu. pakkana vunna virginia ki velthu vunde vaadini. close friends vunnaru akakda.

 అందమయిన జీవితము. అందమయిన ప్రపంచం. కొత్త బంగారు లొకము మాకు కావాలి సొంతము.
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Cylonesubbarao
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Anand_n:

Let it go ...


No... mee iddaru discuss cheyyali andi... thats how readers like me will get a chance to see 2 different perspectives of an issue/topic.

But evaru right and evaru wrong anedi again its upto the individual anukondi.

I'm just asking too cool down your temper and continue with your discussions ani.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
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Cylonesubbarao:

Arey.... aap bhi na!




:-) Let it go ...
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Jkm:



Manam undedhi waste virginia naa?
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Cylonesubbarao
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Anand_n:

No problem if you do not want to debate /discuss


Arey.... aap bhi na!

You must be the change you wish to see in the world
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Der_schuler:

.I haven't quoted you......You were the one who took my name....first

Yet, I didn't reply.....

Be more mindful of what you post on others who never quoted you....




When you make generalistic statements about people in this thread, you become answerable to everyone here :-)So maybe you should name who you mean in your posts so we do not all take it to mean us...and people do not mistake your intent, like I and thirtyplus did:-)

No problem if you do not want to debate /discuss :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Cylonesubbarao
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Der_schuler:

She quoted me.....asked me a question....


Brother DB kooda public forum kadha brother... nannu quote cheyoddu ante ela... as long as abuse lekunda unte... should not be a problem.

But neeku istam ledhu antunnavu.... I understand your point.

But forums annaka different perspectives/views present chesthaaru kadha brother... why do you look at the person.... please counter her post. Idi chadive vaallaki kooda beneficial ga untadi kadha brother... so that mee iddari views ardham chesukuntaaru.

You have a view that differs from Anand... thats not a problem at all... but present cheyakapovadam baaledhu. Please present it so that maa lanti readers oka different perspective choodagaluguthaamu.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
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Der_schuler
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Cylonesubbarao:

Andhulo meaning emi ledhu brother... just aascharyam anthe. Enthi iddaru kattulu pattesukunnaru santham santham ani anthe.




Kathulu antha ledandhi babu...as I said...I respectfully disagree with all of Anand's posts....I stopped replying to his/her posts.....per my prerogative...

She quoted me.....asked me a question....I said I won't discuss that with him/her....as I feel I would have preferred a more learned person than her....nenu emi abuse cheyyala...evarni...

daniki challenge visiraru...vaaru...anduke cheppa...avida medha sakthiki....nenu taalalenu...otami angeekaristhunna ani......simple.....
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Cylonesubbarao
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Der_schuler:

What does that icon mean???


Andhulo meaning emi ledhu brother... just aascharyam anthe. Enthi iddaru kattulu pattesukunnaru santham santham ani anthe.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world
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Der_schuler
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Cylonesubbarao:




What does that icon mean???
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Der_schuler
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Thirtyplus,

I didn't post anything pertaining to ur posts andi...coz I haven't read them properly......
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Cylonesubbarao
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Der_schuler:



Anand_n:



You must be the change you wish to see in the world
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Der_schuler
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Anand_n:

You cannot define my path , but you know mine is wrong - very scientific




Ok....if all u want is some rant....I am ready....again.......I have not even spoke to you....

I dont even like the idea of posting a reply to your posts and have been keeping off them.......I haven't quoted you......You were the one who took my name....first

Yet, I didn't reply.....

Be more mindful of what you post on others who never quoted you....

If it makes u happy...YES.. I can't discuss with you....

coz I am petrified,stupified and mortified by your intellect.......as simple as that...
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Anand_n
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Anand_n:

You cannot define my path , but you know mine is wrong - very scientific




Read that as

"You cannot define YOUR path , but you know mine is wrong - very scientific "


aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Der_schuler:

But sorry, If I were to discuss philosophy and spirituality, I would prefer a more learned person than you...






What a copout - you cannot answer a few pointed/inconvenient questions from someone like me.. but you want to discuss with someone more learned :-)

You cannot define my path , but you know mine is wrong - very scientific

Enjoy :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Der_schuler
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Anand_n:

Let's talk about you and your pursuit




Sorry...but not interested in discussing this...1.) it will end no where....dont want to waste my time with such discussions

2.) I respectfully disagree with most of your viewpoints(almost all to be frank).....per me, most of ur viewpoints are centered around so called objectivism....which within itself is a proper offshoot of hedonism.....may be to be in the good books of the majority or the other.....

But sorry, If I were to discuss philosophy and spirituality, I would prefer a more learned person than you...
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Thirtyplus
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Der_schuler:




babu Der

what ever i said or believe is not an out come of hedonism.
to be truth...those kind of beliefs doesnt make any one happy either. sai baba ni ikkada chaala mandhi nammutharu. kaani sai baba vachindhe 1800 lo. jesus ni one third of the world pujistharu. kaani jesus undhi 2000 years nunde.
manam ippudu undhi 2009 lo. can u know in how many forms god will come here by 50009(48000 years from now). none of us know, but i do know that he will come again in some form. I dont know if u have that level of IQ to think/imagine in a higher level. One should have higher level of consiouness to really understand god and his beautiful creation. Thats what is said in Gita also.
i have to go out...so will continue after coming
just crossed thirty
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Anand_n
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Der_schuler:

what does it mean???




The question was "what is the end of the spiritual pursuit he is seeking , when can he say he has arrived "

I am not interested in theory, or your credentials or what someone else said or taught.

I am asking what is your spiritual goal that you are pursuing, where are you on that path given your intensive spiritual education , and your dedicated pursuit, how far do you need to go and how will you know if you have arrived ?

What have you gained by following that path that your non-spiritual-pursuing counterparts have not in your view...

Let's talk about you and your pursuit :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Jkm
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Der_schuler:

Completely wrong......and tends towards the philosophy of hedonism of whatever makes me happy is right.....




yes. completely wrong. because i don't know the truth. i don't know what i am talking. that was a spontaneous statement from a thought triggered by an external influence. i can not challange you on this topic. because i don't even know what i said was right or wrong. because truth is right untill proven wrong. or vice versa. I thought it was right at that time and that made me feel happy at that moment. kiki. enjoy thammud. dementia tho suffer avuthunna. nannu ekkuva ibbandi pettaku.

 అందమయిన జీవితము. అందమయిన ప్రపంచం. కొత్త బంగారు లొకము మాకు కావాలి సొంతము.
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Ishan
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Nisarga:

there is a definite method or technique that can be taught to others to attain or achieve spirituality



Yes, yoga is the central method documented in scriptures. There are varieties in yoga.

Nisarga:

if the technique is documented well enough then guru may not be required


Not true. Practicing certain types of yoga such as rajayoga without the help of guru is very dangerous. and practicing some other types of yoga without guru's help will really delay the spiritual progress and one will be in perennial confusion. We get innumerable questions in the path which cant be answered by texts.

Its just like taking a a difficult course in the school. An expert teacher is essential to learn the subject despite the availability of the entire library of books.
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Der_schuler
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Anand_n:

simple understandable terms in the minimum words possible please




Please go through the thread and try to measure which poster has the highest avg post length......

Simple, understandable.......So if I can't understand it...I form the majority and hence the other person needs to mend.....??????????????

That supposes 2 things...1.) I am always right....
2.) Truth needs to be colored per my wishes
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Der_schuler
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Anand_n:

Do you ?




what does it mean???
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Anand_n
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Anand_n:

Let's say if we ask Der here what is the end of the spiritual pursuit he is seeking , when can he say he has arrived , I do not think he will be able to answer that definitively.



Der_schuler:

most of the other posters here are definitely indicative as subscribers of hedonism or don't even know what they are talking about....




Do you ? If so answer the question above in simple understandable terms in the minimum words possible please :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Der_schuler
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Jkm:

truth is pathless




Completely wrong......and tends towards the philosophy of hedonism of whatever makes me happy is right.....

infact but for Nisarga and ishan...most of the other posters here are definitely indicative as subscribers of hedonism or don't even know what they are talking about....
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Jkm
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truth

Nisarga:

JK is wrong in his assertion that truth is pathless




truth is pathless and endless too. we have to stop searching for it sometime,somewhere .

 అందమయిన జీవితము. అందమయిన ప్రపంచం. కొత్త బంగారు లొకము మాకు కావాలి సొంతము.
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Anand_n
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Nisarga:

how can he direct while there is no definite path !? again how can the probability be determined!?




Let's say there are a few successful searches for enlightenment documented. There can be enough patterns that can be defined and potential paths charted , right ?


Nisarga:

i guess...in seekers the end is kind of already known.




I don't believe so .. Let's say if we ask Der here what is the end of the spiritual pursuit he is seeking , when can he say he has arrived , I do not think he will be able to answer that definitively.

Because if someone has a definitive answer of a destination - they have to be open to the fact there will be multiple ways to reach that goal:-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Thirtyplus:

at any infinite time in future, i do really think he needs exixtence of humans. why? bcos we are part of him. without us, he might loose his identity. without him, we are nothing.




I was not refuting what you said :-) I actually agree with what you said - I believe scripture is a human description of God ...And God is given qualities by humans the qualities that are important for the society of the time :-)

And I agree with the above statement too :-) Reminded me of Carl Sagan quoting Indian scripture in a Cosmos episode...

"Men are but the dreams of Gods or may be Gods are the dreams of men "
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Nisarga
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Anand_n:

I think the Guru can assess your state and give you direction helping to improve probability of success but the search still has to be your own




how can he direct while there is no definite path !? again how can the probability be determined!?


Anand_n:

What is enlightenment then ? Can it be described with a definite set of parameters applicable across enlightened individuals ?




not sure what it is ! :-)? may be it is the not the same for all. may be we will know something about if the people who seek for it deeply objectively introspect as to what really they are up to? i guess...in seekers the end is kind of already known.
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Thirtyplus
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hello anand garu

i dont know every reason why god comes in different forms at different times..but i do think he comes for a reason.
i posted my opinion for kish question only before.

i do think at some time in infinite future, some of the present religions will be wiped out and new religions will be born. people will be following those new rules and principles.

at any infinite time in future, i do really think he needs exixtence of humans. why? bcos we are part of him. without us, he might loose his identity. without him, we are nothing.
just crossed thirty
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Anand_n
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Nisarga:

If Guru can be of help in realizing spirituality or stuff like that.... I guess the following are the implications of it:

there is a definite method or technique that can be taught to others to attain or achieve spirituality

if the technique is documented well enough then guru may not be required

there is no mysticity attached to it as it is governed by definite rules




And that there is a guaranteed result of enlightenment at the end of following the path prescribed by the Guru - this does negate JK's "Truth is pathless" assertion.

What is enlightenment then ? Can it be described with a definite set of parameters applicable across enlightened individuals ?

I think the Guru can assess your state and give you direction helping to improve probability of success but the search still has to be your own :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Nisarga
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If Guru can be of help in realizing spirituality or stuff like that.... I guess the following are the implications of it:

there is a definite method or technique that can be taught to others to attain or achieve spirituality

if the technique is documented well enough then guru may not be required

there is no mysticity attached to it as it is governed by definite rules

the process can be made simple by experimenting... in view of the fact that LSD kind of drugs can cause similar experiences

JK is wrong in his assertion that truth is pathless
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Anand_n
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Thirtyplus:

then god will come again in a different form i guess. god definitely wants existence of humans.




So God also evolves/adapts to the needs of the times antaru :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Thirtyplus
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since we are in 2009 we might be having these questions, similar thoughts.. think at some point in infinite past or future time when majority of humans only live like pure brahman by abstaing from all worldly pleasures..abstaining from sex also. then god might come in a different avatar and say that people need to have worldly plesures inorder to attain moksha. if really humans stop reproduction..then god will come again in a different form i guess. god definitely wants existence of humans.
just crossed thirty
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Anand_n
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Nisarga:

So it can be of the same help for a common man, for a thief, for a murderer and for a saint to perform or to not perform their duties without conflict.




:-)was thinking something similar while reading the Ramopakhyana translations last night , found one with a curious twist that said Manthara was actually Dundubhi sent by Brahma to cause Rama's exile ...so if she was performing Brahma's command in instigating Kaikeyi , should she be considered evil or dutiful or just as a cog in the wheel executing her karmic function ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Nisarga
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spirituality may be seen, as it stands and performed today, as a method that helps live without internal harmony ,alleviate or reconcile conflicts, perform duties with conviction, reduce the gap between superego and ego ( that of Freud's theory) by obviating superego,not ego :-).

So it can be of the same help for a common man, for a thief, for a murderer and for a saint to perform or to not perform their duties without conflict.
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Anand_n
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Ishan:

and its very important to consider other people's perspectives on these matters...spiritual matters lo we should be very open minded...




This works for people who take the introspection route...:-)We question away till we find an answer that works for us :-)

For those who take the Guru route, the unquestioning attitude works, because it becomes difficult to reconcile conflicts of opinions :-)

You have to pick one or the other and stick with it :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Kish:

Der thammi, like Ishan said it is very difficult for someone like me to find a Guru to guide me or mentor me. So I guess I will go through some literature




Discussions ni complete ga rule out cheyyakandi...the positive thing about discussions is that you can reflect on your thought process...and its very important to consider other people's perspectives on these matters...spiritual matters lo we should be very open minded...For literature and suggestions, I would recommend http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ ...they discuss only spiritual matters and nothing else...
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Ishan
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Anand_n:

Read these two translations
of Ramopakhyana in Mahabharata last night.For those interested, here are the links :-)


http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03289.htm

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12333/12333-h/12333-h.htm




Thanks for the links anand...that second link really good. Time unnappudu chaduvutha.
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Kish
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Der_schuler:



Linkmaster:




I am sorry, I am out of this thread!

Der thammi, like Ishan said it is very difficult for someone like me to find a Guru to guide me or mentor me. So I guess I will go through some literature. I sent an email to you. So please respond when you are free.
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Anand_n
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Read these two translations of Ramopakhyana in Mahabharata last night.For those interested, here are the links :-)


http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03289.htm

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12333/12333-h/12333-h.htm
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Thirtyplus
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good discussion
just crossed thirty
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Anand_n
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Ishan:

What you said is true, really serious spiritual aspirants should find a guru, otherwise one will always be in a confused state. But moderately serious aspirants ki avasaram ledu. Alaa chadivi, vini and choosi personal life ki relate cheskogaligithe that should be enough.




Well said:-) You can start from theory with a Guru or go the other way from introspection, experience and then finding the reasons for the experience :-)

Your Consciousness becomes your Guru leading you along the path of spiritual discovery - This I can say from experience.. :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Der_schuler:


Meeru malli vachaaraa nataraja? I thought you left the DB. What you said is true, really serious spiritual aspirants should find a guru, otherwise one will always be in a confused state. But moderately serious aspirants ki avasaram ledu. Alaa chadivi, vini and choosi personal life ki relate cheskogaligithe that should be enough.
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Getafix
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Kish:

What should be inferred from Lord Krishna's life?




every path leads to mokhsa - anedi Krishnudu simple ga cheppadu..chesi chupinchadu.. for example polygamy is also one way to mokhsaa.. marriage ane complex relation nunchi kitnudu thananu thaanu detach chesukogaligaadu by overdoing it.
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Jkm
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

maa voorlo sunday evening iscon temple ki pothe machiga food pedatharu.

 అందమయిన జీవితము. అందమయిన ప్రపంచం. కొత్త బంగారు లొకము మాకు కావాలి సొంతము.
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Der_schuler
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Kish:

Nice discussion! Thanks everyone for chipping in. But so far no one has answered my below question. I am still confused.




Meeku malli chepthunna...ikkada discuss cheyyalsina vishyam kaadhu idhi....U will find YOUR guru...if you search for one......prathi okkallu matladadaniki idhi edho ..nalugu english mukkalu addhi...andariki nachettuga....meeru goppa anipinchukotaniki.....chese discussion...kaadhu...its a question which is at the root of discovering of trueself......it needs a more refined and learned approach...chusaruga....thread ela divert ayyindho....lot of us come here to satiate a lot of negative energies in us....some to vent anger...some to satisfy the evil side of us...some to kill time.....and some who want others to praise them...by speaking what they want to hear.......and it includes all of us......

Gudiki vellandi....kurchondi......mimmalni meeru prasninchukondi.........daani meedhane nirantharam......dhyanam unchandi.........life complicate cheskotalu ilanti maatalu vinakandi....endukante...spiritual pursuit leni vallu...easy ways vethukutharu.......and they want others to follow it to reinforce their lifestyle coz it identifies with their ego.....

U ARE YOUR BIGGEST TEACHER...ALL U HAVE TO DO IS TO BE TRUE TO UR QUEST....

If there is truth in your pursuit, it will find you........

It is the biggest lesson that I have learnt in my life.....
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Anand_n
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Kish:

What should be inferred from Lord Krishna's life?




Do you have to infer something from his life ? You can just focus on what he taught :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Diviseema:

emanna runa padi vunnam ante adhi mee lanti vaalla valle.

p.s: ever stop dbing.




:-) Runanubandhalu are alwaya a two way street -Discuss chestunte mana thoughts maname question chesi refine chesukuntamu...:-)

I learn,you learn- its a mutually beneficial exercise :-)

DBing maneyyali ani anukovataledu lendi - how much anedi depends on the value-add I perceive from the activity :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Linkmaster
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Kish:

Nice discussion! Thanks everyone for chipping in. But so far no one has answered my below question. I am still confused.





Thammud neeku Der cheppindi ardham kaadaaaa?


do not search for your answers in DB for God sake....


to understand Prabhupada speech, one should be certain level in spirutuvality and phylosphy... U need qualified Guru to answer.....


I request to stop questioning here on it..


this is mainly a argument board rather discussion board..
Annitikante Imp thing..ELections lo PRP/ Chiru ghora parabhavam Oxygen ichindi N fans ki..That's enough to keep them Alive for rest of their Lives... Simhadri:

correct.. thats what I say all the time.. PRP otami chatuna bathikestunnar

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Kish
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice discussion! Thanks everyone for chipping in. But so far no one has answered my below question. I am still confused.


quote:

If Brahman pleasure means giving up material pleasures, and the lecture starts saying Krishna is the supreme Brahman, how come he is known for his pastimes of worldly pleasures? How come all the principles he stipulated for the ordinary people to follow in Geetha to attain Moksha make sense when he himself was completely involved in material pleasures and worldly attachments?

What should be inferred from Lord Krishna's life?


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Linkmaster
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:

..."vishaya vaanchalanu gurinchi sadaaa mananamu cheyuvaanadali mamakaaramu kaamamu gaa maari krodhamagunu...krodhamu valana avivekamu...daani valana gnaapakashakhti ksheeninchi...manishi adogathi paalagunu..."









perfect gaa raasaaru Ghantasaala cheppinadi....


evadiki vaadiki exp ayyi eppatako relaise avuthaaro.. leka telivigaa itharula experience ni thana exp gaa vishayanni ardham chesukoni viveka manthulu avuthaaro adi prajalake vadili estunnaaam.. deeniki vayassu, chaduvu ani teda ledu..
Annitikante Imp thing..ELections lo PRP/ Chiru ghora parabhavam Oxygen ichindi N fans ki..That's enough to keep them Alive for rest of their Lives... Simhadri:

correct.. thats what I say all the time.. PRP otami chatuna bathikestunnar

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Ishan
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Anand_n:

Mamakaramu, prema unconditional ayinantasepu , they are a path to salvation - whether it Is Yashoda or Radha or the bible story I quoted :-)




True. But its probably the most difficult thing to implement.
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Film_fan
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 04:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

good thread....

friday afternoon....tea tho chaduvutha....

sagam chadiva.....naaku thliyani matter chaana undhi....rest this afternoon....

please....continue....
"Any one who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new" - Einstein
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Diviseema
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 01:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

//If you have a car enjoy it to the fullest in the present ..but don't become so dependent on it that you are miserable if tomorrow you lose it
//

anand garu anduke mee post lante padi sachhedhi. pichha pichha ga connect avuthai konni. thanks a lot. Db ki vachhi konni pogottukuntam kaani. emanna runa padi vunnam ante adhi mee lanti vaalla valle.

p.s: ever stop dbing.
DIviseema Sky gari FAN
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Anand_n
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Linkmaster:

mana chuttu goda kattesukoni chevulu musu kontaaam...




This is a trait and arrogance of youth generally - manaki telisinde right, mana religion is best, mana philosophy e correct anukuntamu ...but as you grow older you realise the limits of your understanding and then as we mature we realise all roads lead to the same goal :-)



Ishan:




Mamakaramu, prema unconditional ayinantasepu , they are a path to salvation - whether it Is Yashoda or Radha or the bible story I quoted :-)
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Ishan
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kindi post lo 'mamakaaramu' badulu 'anuraagamu adhikamai' ani chaduvukogalarani vignapthi
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Ishan
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Linkmaster:

saareeka prema ekkuva. thana koduku chedda vaadu, vamsaaniki aristam anna aa saareerakaa abhimaanam kallu mustundi.. ila manaki chaalaa preethi sareeram meeda




Yepp...Reminds me of ...ghantasala vaaru cheppinde inkoti..."vishaya vaanchalanu gurinchi sadaaa mananamu cheyuvaanadali mamakaaramu kaamamu gaa maari krodhamagunu...krodhamu valana avivekamu...daani valana gnaapakashakhti ksheeninchi...manishi adogathi paalagunu..."
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Linkmaster
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ishan:




idi general and very common..


ika to mention, Drutha raastrudiki neethi cheppina vaarilo:

athiradha maharadhulu, mahaanubhavula list lo:

1. Bheeshmudu, 100% perfect man in neethi, dheera and all
2. vyasudu
3. Vidurudu neethi ko saali
4. sanjathudu.. eyana sanakadi munulalo chivari vaadu..


ayina ekkadu.. antha bhesmudu, vidurudu chusu kontaaru annatlu untaadu rajyaanni, kaani thana daaka thana kumaarula daaka vache sariki thana alochanane amalu chestaadu ( as he is king)..

saareeka prema ekkuva. thana koduku chedda vaadu, vamsaaniki aristam anna aa saareeraka abhimaanam kallu mustundi.. ila manaki chaalaa preethi sareeram meeda
Annitikante Imp thing..ELections lo PRP/ Chiru ghora parabhavam Oxygen ichindi N fans ki..That's enough to keep them Alive for rest of their Lives... Simhadri:

correct.. thats what I say all the time.. PRP otami chatuna bathikestunnar

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Ishan
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


kkd:

vaarni.....title tondarllo choosi...Brahmam pleasure ante mana Bemmi uncle meedha thed anukunna...

lopala content soothe naa metta burra ki oka mukka ekkaledhu.....


...daaarunanga mosa poyaaru paapam
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.
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Ishan
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Linkmaster:

manaki telisindi ava ginja antha kuda undadu.. mana vayassu aa phylosphy ni ardham chesukonathi kudaa kaadu, kaani phylospy meeda oka conclusion ki vachi, mana chuttu goda kattesukoni chevulu musu kontaaam...


Evarinanna uddheshinchi antunnaara nataraja? leka general statementaa? Please clarify
"Imagination is More Powerful Than Knowledge" - Einstein.