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Pplsuck
Junior Artist
Username: Pplsuck
Post Number: 800
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 99.234.115.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:52 pm: | 
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>>>>>>>
It is when the epehmeral,transient nature of life hits you in the face that people turn to philosophy and God and rebirth - in hope that human existence goes beyaond what can be snuffed out in a second...
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akkada hit in the face philosophical post untey baane undedi......read Ishan's post again.......daantlo philosophy kosam chaala vethikaa....hmmmm, gave up knowing that I ain't got the smarts........ |
Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5078
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.104.150
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:00 am: |
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Pplsuck:........ee time lo ee thread lo antha post veyyalanipinchindaa neeku
It is when the epehmeral,transient nature of life hits you in the face that people turn to philosophy and God and rebirth - in hope that human existence goes beyaond what can be snuffed out in a second...
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 275
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:59 pm: |
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Pplsuck:oree nee tassaaraavula boddu........ee time lo ee thread lo antha post veyyalanipinchindaa neeku?
"Number One" lo villian ni choosi emo anukunnaa....untaaru...anni rakaalu untaaru......
nuvvu continue...
poyyi pani choosko...
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Pplsuck
Junior Artist
Username: Pplsuck
Post Number: 797
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 99.234.115.56
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:36 pm: |
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oree nee tassaaraavula boddu........ee time lo ee thread lo antha post veyyalanipinchindaa neeku?
"Number One" lo villian ni choosi emo anukunnaa....untaaru...anni rakaalu untaaru......
nuvvu continue... |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 274
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:33 pm: |
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Anand_n:you seem to be redefining it
Look at the context. I was describing the state not defining bliss.
Anand_n:ego is the Self - when the ego ceases to exist , the self ceases to exist
disagree. Self is superior to ego.
Anand_n:
:-)Is that really the only path ? How do we know ?
Look at the history. Major religions of the world, their scriptures and the gigantic souls ever walked on the face of this earth have taught talked about that path only.
Anand_n:there is a level of soul maturity that is needed to reach that state safely- aa mature state ki rakunda if you try to force it thru yoga/meditation ,
Faltering in yoga happens because of improper training and other personal reasons. Its not the fault of yoga. Yogic method by itself doesn't force the aspirant for spiritual progress.
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Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5075
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 68.206.110.236
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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Ishan:Bliss is a state of being with no qualities.
Not the dictionary meaning of Bliss - you seem to be redefining it 
Ishan:Enlightenment is discovering true self.
This is a semantic disconnect - ego is the Self - when the ego ceases to exist , the self ceases to exist - only the universal truth/energy remains - there is no separation left.
Ishan:Yes, there is no reason.
precisely why Nisarga said it is suicidal
Ishan:but hte end of the enlightenment path is already defined and described. So the path is already there and there is only one path and that is self-abnegation.
Is that really the only path ? How do we know ? If 99 percent of the enlightened folks sever ties with the rest of humanity , we are relying on the 1% who found it necessary to keep their ties with the world alive , to teach How do we know the 99 % reached there by the path of self-abnegation or some other means ?
Ishan:Enlightenment must never come by chance.
I actually think the other way round- it should come naturally - we should not force it - there is a level of soul maturity that is needed to reach that state safely- aa mature state ki rakunda if you try to force it thru yoga/meditation , you are likely to have more problems than it coming as a natural progression and growth of the soul...aa maturity lekunda kriya yoga chesi ardhadagdha states lo end ayinavalla stories vine untaru Anduke I keep cautioning let life take its course, let your Consciousness lead you to it when you are ready ani
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 273
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 07:53 pm: |
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Anand_n:
Bliss is an emotion
, the highest emotion
Disagree. Bliss is not an emotion. Emotion is a quality of the ego and mind. Bliss is a state of being with no qualities.
Anand_n:By your definition, enlightenment is the end of existence of self
No. Enlightenment is discovering true self.
Anand_n:if this is a permanent state ..there is no reason for the body to exist
Yes, there is no reason.
Anand_n:Physicas foundation nerchukunnavallu anta Einsteins avvaleru ...
Yes, but foundation leni vaallu asalu physicist ee kaaleru.
Anand_n:So maybe just like many scientific discoveries, enlightenment cannot be taught
We dont know the end of the scientific discoveries before doing the scientific experiments, but hte end of the enlightenment path is already defined and described. So the path is already there and there is only one path and that is self-abnegation.
Anand_n:it just dawns on you one fine day when you are ready
I really pray to god this wont happen to you. Its a very dangerous thing. Enlightenment must never come by chance.
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Redplanet
Side Hero
Username: Redplanet
Post Number: 4673
Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 24.91.69.137
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 07:33 pm: |
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Ee thread inka nadustonda ? Good going. of-Course ee thread lo matter naku pedda ardham kadu. |
Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5073
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 07:14 pm: |
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Ishan:I would believe that a truly self-realized person would never use a negative tone to describe that state.
Depends on their perspective, right? For some silence/inaction is peace, for action oriented and driven people it is painful boredom Okappudu ekkado link post chsanu - different people who described their experiences .. it was an interesting read
Ishan: eternal peace is bliss
Bliss is an emotion, the highest emotion , the opposite of the depths of misery - it is not absence of emotion - that is what I am trying to put across
Lack of emotion, pain, pleasure, empathy is apathy/anhedonia to my mind
But you only feel bliss if there is a "you" /ego to feel By your definition, enlightenment is the end of existence of self and feelings..if this is a permanent state ..there is no reason for the body to exist after reaching this state of super-ego and ego death ...
Ishan:Similarly, guru might not know everything but he/she gives you basic foundations and proper direction
Fair enough Physicas foundation nerchukunnavallu anta Einsteins avvaleru ... So this further strengthens the "truth is pathless" argument - if there is such a low success rate despite following the rules So maybe just like many scientific discoveries, enlightenment cannot be taught - it just dawns on you one fine day when you are ready
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 270
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:58 pm: |
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Nisarga:yes. then what about your analogy of using 100% brain for enlightenment!?
The point of that analogy was to say that self-realization demands such high levels of in-put from the brain.
Nisarga:
the whole point is when ego ends you/I end. only mechanical( of that sort) or animal consciousness remains with just enough self to separate its own body from environment.
Nisarga:the problem with this state in strict sense is you last your identity. there is no you to feel anything at mind level. the body may operate with extraordinary intelligence( as claimed by UG) and react to its immediate causes. may be as UG claimed thought would subside and be present whenever required(there must be a bootstrap mechanism :-) ). But thought would operate with stagnant existing knowledge cuz no movement in mind to build new knowledge.
That is when you stop ego working leaving only animal instincts to work. Here your mind is working at unconscious/subconscious levels. The state I am describing works at super-conscious level.
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Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 269
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:47 pm: |
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Anand_n:There are a lot of different ways many gurus/monks describe enlightenment - some descriptions of the experience are very different from others - some say light, some say total darkness , some peace, some a cycle of illusion, disillusionment and enlightenment:-)
I would believe that a truly self-realized person would never use a negative tone to describe that state.
Anand_n:
No bliss either, just lack of emotion ? Does not sound very appealing does it?
For me, eternal peace is bliss and that is acutely appealing to me.
Anand_n:
How does this add up to looking for a Guru... ? I expect you would need someone who is enlightened to guide you to enlightenment:-) Asalu Vivekananda taravata evaru leru anukunte what is the point in even looking for a Guru ?
There might be some out there but I am not aware of them. When you want to study physics, its impossible to find Einsteins everywhere. Similarly, guru might not know everything but he/she gives you basic foundations and proper direction.
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Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5056
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:58 am: |
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Nisarga:So now would you think evolution produces these kind of humans!?
Look at it from another point of view.. an analogy to the physical body...and the cycle of development
You start helpless, grow into capable adults and then degenerate into baby like helplessness before the body perishes...Could the soul be the same ?
Start at the lowest level of evolution , reach a peak and then retrograde into animal like "id" only awareness before the soul perishes or ends the cycle of life and death - essentially ceasing to exist as a soul
Is the life of the soul analogous to the life of the body, only over multible bodies ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Nisarga
Junior Artist
Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 219
Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 135.245.168.33
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:38 am: |
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Nisarga:So now would you think evolution produces these kind of humans!? this state is not conducive to survival cuz there is no prudence,anticipation,prevention of hazards possible.
these can be taken care at consciousness level or hardware/software level. so the seemingly random changes/motions might actually be a part of hazard prevention mechanism, mechanical, though . |
Nisarga
Junior Artist
Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 135.245.168.36
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 01:54 am: |
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Ishan:I believe that state has no qualities. No pleasure, no pain nothing...its eternal peace and calmness. I cant say any more.
I think we all have some kind of understanding about this state and we rehashing the same in different form.
the problem with this state in strict sense is you last your identity. there is no you to feel anything at mind level. the body may operate with extraordinary intelligence( as claimed by UG) and react to its immediate causes. may be as UG claimed thought would subside and be present whenever required(there must be a bootstrap mechanism ). But thought would operate with stagnant existing knowledge cuz no movement in mind to build new knowledge.
So now would you think evolution produces these kind of humans!? this state is not conducive to survival cuz there is no prudence,anticipation,prevention of hazards possible. I understand animals are like that. but humans are way ahead in the chain of life evolution produced. would it not be retrograde act if it does so? stumbling into that state would be a chance or it is possible with engineering( of what ! guess ) |
Nisarga
Junior Artist
Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 215
Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 135.245.10.2
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:21 pm: |
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Ishan:Not necessarily. You can use 100% of CPU with just running a single high demanding program (of course excluding basic system maintenance programs), regardless of number of threads or processors.
yes. then what about your analogy of using 100% brain for enlightenment!?
Ishan:No. Consciousness goes beyond ego. Ego is a milestone and not the end. Ego is your individuality restricting you to few qualities. But the real you is beyond that. Killing ego not suicidal, but de-hypnotization.
the whole point is when ego ends you/I end. only mechanical( of that sort) or animal consciousness remains with just enough self to separate its own body from environment. |
Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5054
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 68.206.110.236
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:15 pm: |
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Ishan:Simply because Buddha never said that state was painful, nonsense and rubbish.
There are a lot of different ways many gurus/monks describe enlightenment - some descriptions of the experience are very different from others - some say light, some say total darkness , some peace, some a cycle of illusion, disillusionment and enlightenment
Now if we make a claim that none of these are enlightened , that is a different arguement
Ishan:
I believe that state has no qualities. No pleasure, no pain nothing...its eternal peace and calmness. I cant say any more.
No bliss either, just lack of emotion ? Does not sound very appealing does it?
Ishan:Currently, I don't know any.
How does this add up to looking for a Guru... ? I expect you would need someone who is enlightened to guide you to enlightenment Asalu Vivekananda taravata evaru leru anukunte what is the point in even looking for a Guru ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 267
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:38 pm: |
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Anand_n:
Why do you think his state was not the same as Buddha's ?
Simply because Buddha never said that state was painful, nonsense and rubbish.
Anand_n:What are the qualities of that irrefutably ultimate state ?
I believe that state has no qualities. No pleasure, no pain nothing...its eternal peace and calmness. I cant say any more.
Anand_n:Who in the current day world do you think has acheived that ultimate state ?
99% of these yogis are unknown to the world. Very very few people come in to the world and preach. Siddhartha Gauthama was actually the 24th buddha. 23 before him are unknown to us. I would believe Shiridi baba and vivekananda were also one of them. Currently, I don't know any.
In my childhood, I saw a yogi in srisailam in front of a temple under a tree. He was sitting as solid as a rock. His eyes were open. I observed him for an hour, he was absolutely still and never blinked. He was looking at a spot and didn't move his pupil even for a second. For a moment I thought he was dead. Also, I closely missed watching a yogi floating in water in the same sri-sailam. I heard people talking about him coming to the river daily and do that routine. Most of these yogis are quiet.
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Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5051
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 68.206.110.236
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:05 pm: |
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Ishan:My guess is he experienced that state even though he said he experienced the same state as Buddha and Jesus did.
Interesting statement
Why do you think his state was not the same as Buddha's ?
What are the qualities of that irrefutably ultimate state ? How would a person know the difference between the state you think UG experienced and the ultimate state ?
Who in the current day world do you think has acheived that ultimate state ?
Lots of questions come to mind from that one statement
Nisarga:but i wud think perfection is ideal most of the times.
Perfection as defined by whom ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Ishan
Junior Artist
Username: Ishan
Post Number: 266
Registered: 01-2009
Posted From: 68.90.238.50
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 07:45 pm: |
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Nisarga:who is it that kills ego!? it is the ego itself right?
No. Consciousness goes beyond ego. Ego is a milestone and not the end. Ego is your individuality restricting you to few qualities. But the real you is beyond that. Killing ego not suicidal, but de-hypnotization.
Nisarga:try to read UG despite the aversion you may have toward him you may get to know how fascistic ego is if enlightenment in strict sense really possible.
I dont have any aversion for him because I dont even know his works, In fact I didn't even know his name until last year. I just read about him in wikipedia and watched a couple of you tube videos. Poor guy, had to underwent so much stress in life...a sick kid, mental wife, broken family...I kind of felt sorry for him.
His life journey is pretty close to a life of a sanyasin. He traveled a lot, interacted with other philosophers, involved in discussions, arguments etc.
Interesting to read his experiences of enlightenment which he calls as calamity. Looks like that experience had made the real him. Its believed and reported that during the intense exercise of spiritual pursuits, particularly those involve meditation, people stumble. They experience certain psychic powers and physiological changes and think that that's the end of the pursuit and they don't know how to handle that state. My guess is he experienced that state even though he said he experienced the same state as Buddha and Jesus did. No disrespect intended, that's just my first impression.
Anyways, each of his quotes can be subjected to in depth discussions. Some of them are absolutely questionable and some of them are thought provoking. We will surely talk about them later.
Nisarga:
w.r.t. your analogy of brain/CPU utilization... should there be more thoughts( applications
when it comes to CPU ( with multi processors may be) ) running to make use of full brain!!?
Not necessarily. You can use 100% of CPU with just running a single high demanding program (of course excluding basic system maintenance programs), regardless of number of threads or processors.
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Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5046
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.104.150
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:17 am: |
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Nisarga:so that is why i wud say the outcome may depend on what we really seek.
And what we think is immoral ..its all in us
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Anand_n
Side Hero
Username: Anand_n
Post Number: 5045
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.104.150
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:16 am: |
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Nisarga:the conflict may not exist simultaneously. i mean one can be in the background( sub/unconscious mind). for. e.x. i have exams ahead and i am supposed to prepare for it..but out of my interest toward it i may be able to indulge reading philosophy. during my read i may not think about my exams( it might be there subconsciously). once i am done with my immersion in phil, i may not feel happy ... i may feel guilt for not doing the right thing. normally my immersion should give sense of happiness right?
But it is "guilt" which is the spoilsport, isn't it ?
I agree with you that you may have temporary cycles of immersion and guilt ..but you cannot find freedom unless you are able to live guilt-free - that is when true immersion happens
See this is why Immersion in God is the easiest route - there is no guilt associated with it - thanks to religious morals, even if you neglect your worldly responsibilities , we can always tell ourselves we are doing it for a higher purpose and immerse guiltfree and permanently There is a reason religion is called an opiate , right 
Guilt only hits if you come out of that state of immersion - and based on your moral value structure - does that make sense ? So even though, I cannot stand UG's delivery..it puts a filter when I read/listen to him - I have to admit he is not too far off ..
Janaka Maharaja is an ideal because of that - someone who can straddle both paths with equal ease and balance , enjoy both sides of the coin,the material and the spiritual , switching at ease between the two ..
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale |
Nisarga
Junior Artist
Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 214
Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 135.245.168.34
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 08:07 am: |
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Ishan,
who is it that kills ego!? it is the ego itself right? that's y it's suicidal if can real do it. whatever ego/thought/self does is to perpetuate its own existence. that is the whole point of UG's talk. try to read UG despite the aversion you may have toward him you may get to know how fascistic ego is if enlightenment in strict sense really possible.
w.r.t. your analogy of brain/CPU utilization... should there be more thoughts( applications when it comes to CPU ( with multi processors may be) ) running to make use of full brain!!?
Anand,
w.r.t getting immersed....theoretically what u said is right. I too think the same way...but what i wud think is ...the conflict may not exist simultaneously. i mean one can be in the background( sub/unconscious mind). for. e.x. i have exams ahead and i am supposed to prepare for it..but out of my interest toward it i may be able to indulge reading philosophy. during my read i may not think about my exams( it might be there subconsciously). once i am done with my immersion in phil, i may not feel happy ... i may feel guilt for not doing the right thing. normally my immersion should give sense of happiness right?
so that is why i wud say the outcome may depend on what we really seek. yes this may hold good when strictness is relaxed. but i wud think perfection is ideal most of the times. |
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