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Chalanachithram.com DB » TF Industry related » Archive through September 03, 2009 » Similar incident involving bell 430 where ELT did not work « Previous Next »

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Anand_n
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Username: Anand_n

Post Number: 5065
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 05:01 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Neel:

it was a different scenario




yes.
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Anand_n
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Username: Anand_n

Post Number: 5064
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 05:00 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Indiarocks:


Cell phone is out of the question unless they landed in a town/village.




They may not be able to make calls but if an active cellphone can interfere with air traffic communications/hospital equipment, I am thinking the phone itself should have a strong enough signal to be traceable .
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2769
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 59.92.206.129

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:42 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Indiarocks:

Cell phone is out of the question unless they landed in a town/village.




IR .. true .. but a sukoi or low lying air craft can sense the signals coming from mobiles
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Indiarocks
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Username: Indiarocks

Post Number: 952
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 207.141.5.253

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:40 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

I believe the basic rule in an aircraft crash is to get away from the aircraft as quickly as you can - due to the fire and explosion risk - so the phones on the helicopter are not likely to be used immediately..

So hope for the best, that they moved away from the helicopter after the forced landing...




Cell phone is out of the question unless they landed in a town/village.
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Neel
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Username: Neel

Post Number: 3754
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 75.57.187.118

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:32 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:




do you remember Vijay Malya UB Chairman surviving Holicopter crash few years back
but It was not in the forest
it was a different scenario
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Anand_n
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Username: Anand_n

Post Number: 5063
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:30 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Chivuks:

there are 2 satellite phones in the helicopter is what national media reported




I believe the basic rule in an aircraft crash is to get away from the aircraft as quickly as you can - due to the fire and explosion risk - so the phones on the helicopter are not likely to be used immediately..

So hope for the best, that they moved away from the helicopter after the forced landing...
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2767
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 59.92.206.129

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:26 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Neel:

search operation on Krishna River in boats




old news ... and may be fake
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Neel
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Username: Neel

Post Number: 3753
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 75.57.187.118

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:23 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Chiru_fan:




search operation on Krishna River in boats
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2766
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 59.92.206.129

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:22 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What has surprised officials is the complete radio silence from the Bell-430. Every helicopter, sources in the aviation industry say, is equipped with High Frequency (HF) and Very High Frequency (VHF) sets.

Puzzling fact

While HF is used for long range communication, the VHF is used for communication within 150 km. In the event of a crash, however, these sets might not function if the external antennae are destroyed under the impact of a crash.

The other puzzling fact in the episode is that every helicopter is expected to have an Emergency Locating Transmitter (ELT) fitted to the aircraft body, while the pilot is expected to carry a Personal Recovery Beacon (PRB).

The ELT would start giving distress signals in the event of a crash and the PRB, once activated, would start beaming the Global Positioning System (GPS) ‘latlong’ (latitude and longitude) details.

This would have helped authorities pinpoint the location of the chopper, if it had crashed or force-landed in an interior place.
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Chiru_fan
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Username: Chiru_fan

Post Number: 8068
Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 170.22.76.10

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:20 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

/anyone watching NDTV/

Neel sister, any special news?
CHIRU - SACHIN - FEDERER
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Neel
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Username: Neel

Post Number: 3752
Registered: 07-2008
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:19 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

anyone watching NDTV
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2765
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:19 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

bros .. s/w budhi ekkadiki podu ..
edanna bug vasthe .. the initial tendency is to look around to see similar bugs in the past, symptoms, debugging and info gathered ...

some people may not like it ... but just for information for others
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2764
Registered: 07-2008
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:17 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An investigation team of the Turkish Civil Aviation Authority (Turkish: Sivil Havacılık Genel Müdürlüğü) stated that the crashed helicopter was equipped with an emergency locater transmitter (ELT) contrary to the claims that the aircraft lacked one or it was not functioning. The ELT was not able to send signals strong enough due to its broken antenna caused by the crash. The CEO of the holding company affiliated with Medair, Ali Sabancı, told that the helicopter was regularly maintained and the ELT device was installed one week before the accident.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Medair_TC-HEK_helicopter_c rash
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Bhikhu
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Username: Bhikhu

Post Number: 3864
Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 148.129.71.53

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:09 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sivuks tamud bottom line ettu
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2763
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:08 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

there are 2 satellite phones in the helicopter is what national media reported
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Arjun1234
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Username: Arjun1234

Post Number: 860
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 198.241.217.15

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:06 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

More disturbing than ELT not functioning is the lack of cellphone contact - ?




Naaku exact same doubt wachindhi... and I would assume CM travel cheseppudu they would have communication equipment with better technologies... but yea aa doubt ki only answer could be weather and the location...
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Dhaarkaar
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Username: Dhaarkaar

Post Number: 16166
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 198.204.133.208

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:05 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Anand_n:

Is it possible to trace the physical phone in an area that does not have signal ?


not sure, IMEI number use chesi kanukovachani ekkado chadiva
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Anand_n
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Username: Anand_n

Post Number: 5062
Registered: 02-2008
Posted From: 167.24.24.150

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 04:04 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More disturbing than ELT not functioning is the lack of cellphone contact - unless they landed in water and rendered the cell phones useless...if the helicopter had life jackets/rafts on board that seems to be the most promising scenario..

Even if the phones were turned off inflight they would have tried to turn phones on and establish contact...Is it possible to trace the physical phone in an area that does not have signal ?
aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale
jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale
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Apple
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Username: Apple

Post Number: 2473
Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 86.169.213.190

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hit ayinappudu pani cheyavu ani telisinappudu technology ni improve cheyalani innitaa gnanam vundali kadaa!!!

it wont work anappudu inka use cheyatam deniki....

antey safe land ayithey ney working and if it wont antey .....

emi technology oo yento!!
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Chivuks
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Username: Chivuks

Post Number: 2762
Registered: 07-2008
Posted From: 59.92.206.129

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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 03:52 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry guys for posting this, but i have been looking for some scientific data about how ELT could not work

Check the below sniipet:

The helicopter is fitted with one Emergency Locater transmitter Type Artex
–C406-2HM, Part No. 453-5001-419, S/no. 00281 at the time of accident.
ELT unit was found in the helicopter wreckage and was separated from its
anteena assy during the impact. ELT fitted on the helicopter did not function
during impact with the hill. The ELT is installed on the helicopter in the aft
8
fuselage at aircraft station between station no.313.23 and 324 below the aft
avionics compartment and access is through the ADF antenna panel. ELT
Antenna is located at Right engine oil cooler panel. The said unit was
removed from the helicopter on 30.5.2008 due its Non Radiating power
check due on 31.5.2008 by Radio AME authorized by M/S Shourya
Aeronautics Limited. The said check was done at M/S AR Aerotech, New
Delhi on 30.5.2008 and the same was released after test. Thereafter the same
unit was installed by AME under the CAR 145 authorization
no.QAP01/08/26 dated 28.5.2008 and subsequent to its installation the unit
operation check was carried out which was found satisfactory.

full report of a very similar incident where Bell 430 crashed in a hill and ELT did not work here:


when ever i have a doubt, it always proves wrong .. so i am hoping i am wrong one more time with my doubts

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url= http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hillsboro-aviation.com%2FAircraftMaintenanc e%2FOS_Maint_Web.pdf&ei=msqeSpugEojCsQP4raQp&usg=AFQjCNGKn_U sWv8-p6IfVzrssOWTm51G3A&sig2=TTDRGFIk4hmu9Gxn_qYxrw

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