| Author | Message | ||
     Guriginja Megastar Username: Guriginja Post Number: 24497 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 24.197.146.201 Rating: N/A |
may be you are refering to the pineal gland... called the 3rd eye in metaphysics. It is the only part of the brain that is not paired and is located right in the middle so has the mystic aura. Not much is understood about it I guess but it is very active in babies (problably helps in brain development) and as we grow older it becomes calcified. It produces melatonin which accdording to some researchers enhance neuron generation and synapse formation.....so more neurons, more synapses, more grey matter, the more smarter you are...marijuana also casues similar effects of pineal secretions so hence you see the intelectual/ the learned one effrect kabolu.....google seyandi.....conspiracy theories on decalcificationj of pineal gland etc vunnayi...nijanijalu pakkana pedithe very intresting. JOHAR YSR.....YSR AMAR RAHE | ||
| Guriginja Megastar Username: Guriginja Post Number: 24496 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 24.197.146.201 Rating: N/A |
I don't think it is humanely possible to completely shut off respiration...someone 'shutting of the involuntary system' might be their wrong interpretation or perception I guess....there is a possibility that one can say that they shut down something if they don't feel it. Just like when you are in the different stages of REM and NREM sleep, it is difficult to wake you up when you are in certain stages and easy in some....ala interpretation tapu tappithe vooluntarily shutting of involuntary system is BS unless supported by some research anukunta. JOHAR YSR.....YSR AMAR RAHE | ||
| Masularex Junior Artist Username: Masularex Post Number: 681 Registered: 05-2010 Posted From: 210.18.154.186 Rating: N/A |
if Sapolsky was suggesting that some sort of neurological disorder has created religion then nothing much there to disagree! But I don't think fundoos will take that observation jollily. We can comfort them by saying, same type of people with various neurological disorders now denouncing religion! If these nuts are on their way, one day they are gonna undo it!Inshalla!  He creates! He destroys! But he wasn't saying the same thing exactly! What I can fathom from that excerpt, among primitive humans, persons with neurological anomalies who could think differently might have helped the evolution of belief system. This belief system has been retained because of its social building ability and turned into more organized system i.e. religion. Same like, neurological anomalies have been also retained in human DNA, because of the associated utility to the society. But only moderate anomaly is useful. Full blown out versions create wackos with serious behavioral disabilities,who some times can type! We can subjectively examine the evolution of belief system and psychiatric disorders... both partial and full versions. and the alleged relation! but both of these things tightly intervened with the evolution of communication system! actually that language thing made us humans! ... | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9520 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 166.205.14.237 Rating: N/A |
Jujung, Agree that utility to society has little impact on 'natural' selection - but it is the main driver for 'social' selection. What kind of people are valued by society drive perceived 'eligible' catches for marriage and that does have an impact on gene propagation  aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Jujung Junior Artist Username: Jujung Post Number: 282 Registered: 02-2010 Posted From: 68.45.60.104 Rating: N/A |
a meandering stream of thoughts.... "Utility" to society has little to do with natural selection. Saibaba/Jesus/bachelor babas, for the all their claimed utility to society, are childless and their genes are not selected for further evolution. Genghis khan(any raping marauder), for all the destruction he wrecked on societies, is apparently the genetic father of 0.5% of men in the current world. Evolution is all about "winning" and "conquering" the resources. This is also why the humanity can never reach a stable "peaceful" level at which all wars would cease to exist. Any local society which reaches this level will soon be overrun by the neighbors, unless the peaceful society also maintains a super strong army which is kind of antithetical to its ideas. He told a good story about slight schizophrenics being useful to society and hence the gene got carried. But, irrespective of their "utility", it's not that unreasonable to expect anybody *except those with reproductive problems or totally mentally retarded* producing children. The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us.- Paul Valery | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9516 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 166.205.14.237 Rating: N/A |
Nisarga, I am inclined to think just carrying over ... We have a huge component of our genetic material that is common with animals along the evolutionary chain Srila prabhupada quotes from scripture that we have to go thru so many animal janmas before achieving manava janma - human evolutionary chain lo species seem to come close to the number - so maybe that quote is not about individual humans rebirth cycles - but steps to evolution of the human species Now the part that I am still struggling with is what could be the benefit of annihilation the superior brain function and going back to the basic instincts - without thought or prudence ? To the individual - freedom from all expectations, sense of responsibility etc. But as you and I have both asked before - after that what ? What would be the impact of a major portion of humanity acheiving that state ? If we look at what the seers have contributed to the world , would it be as valuable if every other person did that ? Imagining that scenario lends plausibility to Sapolsky's theory oka saibaba unte followers across the world unite - intiki oka saibaba unte the result will be fragmentation Typing on my phone while waiting outside a class for my son - sorry about the possibly disjointed content of the post -have not figured out the scrolling in the db text box  aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 374 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 123.237.217.103 Rating: N/A |
yes I am not denying the physical or metaphysical reality, but was referring to inability and/or ineffability of common perception, and finiteness of consciousnesses and the way it has to operate.
may be yes if they are required for realization of higher order brain functions or survival or just keep carrying over | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9512 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 166.205.13.59 Rating: |
Nisarga, Think you just came full circle I think Absolute truth has to exist-trying to define the nature of it is what starts the debate of perceptions A religious person says we came from a spark I of the infinite divine light - a non religious one says we stepped out of a supernova maybe absolute truth is something even more basic 'laws of nature'... Agree with you though that a common perception of that truth may not exist due to the variability of the observers for the lack of a better term Coming to the second part - the sense of seperation and identity, the ability to think and act all cause that distancing from the laws of nature - that is why I guess the prescribed path to find the truth is losing that ego/I and becoming one with nature ... Which brings me back to my current fav area- that sense of I , me , mine developed in organisms higher on the evolutionary chain - after reptiles. The minute an organism was able to raise it's head off the ground( physically and metaphorically) and look at itself in it's entirey - the sense of separation would have started with it understanding cause and effect of it's actions But would the old instincts of pre reptilian era still be coded in the genes - that would be invoked in a certain state letting you lose that sense of separation ? Lol-think I meandered all over the place - try and make sense of the above aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 373 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.35 Rating: N/A |
i dont think there can be any such thing as absolute truth. we dont know if it is absolute or not even if v get with it because there might not be any 'We/I/You' to interpret it. actually the whole problem wud have started from the moment the separation( The I/Ego/Consciousness or whatever it is called) mechanism came about. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9499 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
I am here so I wonder Absolute truth antu unte adi telisina taravata wondering will stop ..till then we wonder, we explore, we learn, we adapt, we adjust our position and we wonder again and the cycle continues..so where's the confusion ?  aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Masularex Junior Artist Username: Masularex Post Number: 656 Registered: 05-2010 Posted From: 210.18.154.132 Rating: |
some times I wonder why I am not here? some times I wonder why I am here? its the mutants! particularly the hydra variety! any topic can be shaped into any other topic! expressing ideas like and opposite at the same time... transforming roles from biological anthropology to philosophical... you can not attack or defend... because its just hydra! there is no spine to take a definite stand. if you have a point... hydra took that shape already some where! again why am I here? confusing! may be I need little rest! | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9498 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
I don't know if you would call it intelligence or instinct though - if it does not involve conscious processing/thought aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 372 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.242.134.176 Rating: N/A |
anyway prudence r whatever it wud only be result of movement of some neuronal structures in the brain.so intelligence wud be possible even without emergent consciousness and as process of movement of something physical. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9494 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
And something sturck me last night after I made the last post on memory , interpretation of direct experience into religious icons in memory that the highest state of direct experience is realisation of 'nirakara nirguna brahma'. There is a story that after a point of Ramakrishna Parama hamsa revering Kali , he was told he needed to go beyond the image.Per the anecdote - Mother Kali gave him a sword and asked him to cut off the link to her visage and realise the nirakara nirguna brahma... Allegory to severing the final connection between acquired memory and the direct experience as in just existing ? aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9492 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
There is a stream of thought in neurophilosophy that the God spot emerged int he Neanderthal and Cro-magnons as an emotional self-defense response to accepting death/ fear of death So may be there is an evolutionary advantage to that. Prudence may not always be a benefit. Like in a crisis situation, reflex is more important that rationalising prudence which can cause analysis paralysis aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 371 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.35 Rating: N/A |
sounds plausible and i think we discussed along these earlier also in some thread about dreams.yes, as u said the direct experiences could also be interpreted or reported as religious experiences based on the culture and memory store.Also, as i posted once when certain brain areas are inactive or misfuntion we would lose the sense of boundaries and we would feel all pervasive. that said,i dont think direct experience is something noble or special or gives special insights into reality. it is just another way of(may be a primitive way) of looking at reality. it would not have any survival benefits because prudence is result of higher order brain structures/functions. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9488 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: N/A |
Let me elaborate that a bit and then maybe you can extrapolate from it ... You are in deep sleep , where your higher brain functions are at rest. Only the reptilian brain isactive, running the autonomic functions... Alarm goes off.The auditory signal is registered. the higher functions of the brain kick into action - connecting emotional/afferent memory to the sound , creating an 'interpretation' of that 'experience'- as a dream with the alarm going off - one level of consciousness up - and then the neo mamalian processes kick in to fully awake state, another level of consciousness up...{what I just wrote reminded me of the movie Inception ) How we dream that scene is based on our experiences that are stored in the memories .. could spiritual experiences be the same - a direct experience that is then interpreted based on the memories(belief system) ..I posted a thread earlier on how we see hallucinations of Gods only in our religion - like a hindu will not see allah guiding him and vice versa(unless they consciously set out to create that memory repository ).. So maybe a certain brain stimulus/response(at the reptilian brain level) is interpreted as a religious experience by people across religions - neuro-philosophy talks about a God spot in the brain - think its in the amygdala if I remember right Let me know your thoughts on the above aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8103 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
and they don't need thought to do anything ani chaduvukondi | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8102 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
you are making absolute sense to me bro.....remember you posted an article on how the origin of our action is not thought the process begins well before you think about that action...so there could be people who has no use of thought(or intellect) to reinforce or manipulate the original source of motivation behind our thought or so called awareness, for them everything is in its place and they need thought to do anything......that could be the readson why in gaudiya vaishnavism particularly srila prabhupada insists on two types of ego...one is false ego, other one is real ego......our phisical behaviour is mostly controlled by false ego rooted in real ego....so spiritual goal is to atleast identify ourselves with real ego or the real essence of our existence | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9451 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 166.205.14.157 Rating: N/A |
GG, Lol btw, loved the remark about the thread title - the hilarious pun did not hit me till u highlighted it Nisarga, No I have not read Kosambi 's work. Currently my reading is limited to college prospectus bundles that are flooding the mailbox Direct experience, processing , intelligence - have some preliminary thoughts - need to mull over a bit more before they make coherent sense I am thinking on the lines of the transition from deep dreamless sleep to waking state - like when the alarm goes off - and you dream it is happening in a scene in your dream ... aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Gandhiguevara Hero Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 17252 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.210.96.94 Rating: N/A |
asalenti yee language...def. not english | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 370 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.36 Rating: N/A |
may be it is out of context but did you read DD Kosambi's interpretations on the Kind of stuff that wearing Naga on neck and wrapping the tiger skin to body etc. may be it is in "An introduction to the study of Indian history" or "The Culture and Civilisation of Ancient India" by D.D. Kosambi. Would like to know your take on that. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 369 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.34 Rating: N/A |
I always find it difficult to understand as to what direct experience is like. if self/ego is shut off then there would be nothing to interpret the things with reference to itself.so all the experiences would be discrete. Or would it be like the intelligence then is mechanical and operates based on the knowledge coded physically in the brain? intelligence may not need consciousness(higher level one) , as the knowledge coded physically anyway and when need arises the body responds accordingly based on the knowledge accrued!!?? Could this be what UG talking about when he claimed his thought process fell in it's proper rhythm. what about the goals,prudence,planning and all that stuff!! do i make any sense? and another how can we shut down higher level mind when it is the result of the activities in lower level structures !!? the mind needs to mend the activities to its desired result. Hofstadter account of self symbol arising out of other symbols(representations) is interesting read. | ||
| Senapathy Side Hero Username: Senapathy Post Number: 4748 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 137.131.212.40 Rating: N/A |
 Dinners aithey cooking.. Romance ey missing ;) I am struck by the lightning of love and burnt beyond repair - Florentino Ariza | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9449 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Email week chudataniki one week lag aa ? Guess its understandable - busy with cooking romantic dinners anukunta aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Senapathy Side Hero Username: Senapathy Post Number: 4747 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 137.131.212.40 Rating: N/A |
Antha strong feeling enduku sodara? I am struck by the lightning of love and burnt beyond repair - Florentino Ariza | ||
| Senapathy Side Hero Username: Senapathy Post Number: 4746 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 137.131.212.40 Rating: N/A |
 Pinni ippude mee email choosa. Was busy in the weeeknd.. Howdy? I am struck by the lightning of love and burnt beyond repair - Florentino Ariza | ||
| Basky_indya Megastar Username: Basky_indya Post Number: 25842 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 76.187.247.121 Rating: N/A |
thread chadavaledu. brain cannot be manufactured ani mathram cheppa galanu. all brains are not equal also ani kooda cheppagalanu. kRUshITHO nAsthee dURbhikSHAM!! JP_ROCKS: ...der unte enchakka andarni giant wheel ekkistadu..girrr mani oogachu.. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9448 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Anduke trust your gut, antaru
Let's for a minute assume it is true... If a certain number of schizotypals gave the group an evolutionary advantage - in terms of setting social ground rules- the reason for their authority would be their uniqueness leading people to see them as prophets... If then, this aberration became a common occurrence,it would be counter-productive. Persons displaying the trait would no longer have that 'divine' authority... Could the renunciate/celibate life prescribed across religions have been a social mechanism to curtail the numbers of these 'prophets' or to filter the more strongly expressed schizotypal genes from further propagation ? Intriguing thought aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Oohlala Comedian Username: Oohlala Post Number: 1003 Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 64.102.249.6 Rating: N/A |
yep, read the same thing. Apparently the limbic brain is the honest brain as its motive is survival (freeze, flee or fight), unconscious and hence does not have an agenda like the neomammalian brain aka executive brain. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9447 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Thanks. Note to self- Look for any documented hereditary patterns for this aberration
Thanks - the brain and mind , our own and in general, makes for an interesting exploration aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Okahyderabadi Side Hero Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 2853 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 198.22.157.41 Rating: N/A |
Good thread Nisarga, nice points Anand_n as usual there are many theories around it never got to read more and explore, may be summer sabbatical reading In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Ishan Moderator Username: Ishan Post Number: 9085 Registered: 01-2009 Rating: N/A |
Schizophrenia is not a chromosomal disorder. I don't think for any other disease type, a single most protein can be attributed. Its all about network of protein interactions. and each protein is encoded at different genomic locations. Yes its possible that some important ones are coded in either x or y, but rest of them can be coded by any of the other 22 chr's | ||
| Jcgaru Side Hero Username: Jcgaru Post Number: 2990 Registered: 01-2011 Posted From: 74.63.112.146 Rating: N/A |
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| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9445 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
I don't think I implied they are independent- but that they have different functions to start with But, to your point the brain is more adaptive than we thought ani chala research undi kada...read a couple papers showing examples of how the remaining brain adapts to take on the function of an injured/damaged part... I've wonder if kundalini yoga is one means to make the body and different parts of the brain function seamlessly together to realise the full potential of the brain - the desired state of free movement of kundalini thru the chakras could just be a reference to ideal state functioning of all parts of the brain and nervous system Anyway these are just my thoughts stemming from trying to juxtapose various references and find the intersection points Oka doubt - genetics baga telisinavallu evaraina clear cheyyandi - Is the schizophrenia/schizotypal genetic predisposition carried on the X or Y chromosome specifically ? I have hypothesized for a long time that inclination towards the spiritual(?) experiences is a matrilineal trait - so looking to see if this matches up
Medicine/biology na subject kadu so emanna ghoramaina tappulu/misinterpretations unte kshaminchi correct cheyyandi aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| 2cool Side Hero Username: 2cool Post Number: 6372 Registered: 05-2009 Posted From: 173.242.114.87 Rating: N/A |
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| Jcgaru Side Hero Username: Jcgaru Post Number: 2980 Registered: 01-2011 Posted From: 74.63.112.143 Rating: N/A |
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| Ishan Moderator Username: Ishan Post Number: 9081 Registered: 01-2009 Rating: N/A |
You can, its not easy but its possible. Swasasthambana is a high end technique in yoga - the say Vivekananda consciously ended his life with this technique. Anyways, my point was that its tough to delineate reptillian and mammalian parts of our nervous system. I mean they are not totally independent of each other. One example is that mental anxiety leading to high blood pressure which is controlled by involuntary NS. Yes, those nervous junctions can be alluded to 'ganglion' where the nerves from the spinal cord meet with the nerves of other organs like gut, heart, lungs etc. Sympathetic ganglion are located parallel to the spinal cord. Vagus, yes may be, its the most important cranial nerve connecting important visceral organs directly to the brain. That could be possible, but considering the 'slowness' of evolution and natural selection, and the 'infancy' of human civilization (~3000 years), I would be amazed if that theory is proved. I meant we could do it, but only irreversibly. | ||
| Baboo_dimchak Junior Artist Username: Baboo_dimchak Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2011 Posted From: 194.176.105.58 Rating: N/A |
nee vakka, ekkindanthaa digipoyindhi.  TRUE LEGENDS ACTORS OF TFI: Nagayya, ANR, NTR, Savitri, SVR, Suryakantam, Gummadi, Krishna, Chiranjeevi, Kamal Hassan, Rajendra Prasad .............. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 368 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.33 Rating: N/A |
you mean if they exist, may be i dont believe in; but i do not rule out the possibility. | ||
| Gandhiguevara Hero Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 17243 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.210.96.94 Rating: N/A |
Do you believe in aliens? | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 367 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.33 Rating: N/A |
interesting. can we still be conscious after shutting off lower level functions? lower level functions/structures are required for consciousness/self. we might be able to reduce consciousness/self by altering these structures but using consciousness/thought we would not be able to shut down itself. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 366 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.33 Rating: N/A |
per Sapolsky(in this article) mental traits are linked to genetics. >>> Quote: One of the keys about schizophrenia is that it's a disorder with a genetic component. That doesn't mean it is genetically guaranteed. It is not genetically determined. There is a genetic risk for this disease, as is the case with most psychiatric disorders. The minute you see there's any genetics on the scene, you've got to ask an evolutionary question, which is: "Where did these genes evolve from?" Why do we have schizophrenia in every culture on this planet? From an evolutionary perspective, schizophrenia is not a cool thing to have. <<< >>> Quote: So what's the adaptive advantage of schizophrenia? It has to do with a classic truism--this business that sometimes you have a genetic trait which in the full-blown version is a disaster, but the partial version is good news. <<< May be the adaptive advantage of schizotypal personalities is it help form religions/organizations which would help in survival of the groups. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9444 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Hmm - can you shut it off completely ? I think its more that you can slow down the body processes to reduce the need for oxygen - I think when the body perceives a threat to life, the autonomic response will kick in...
I have always thought of these as allegories, not physical entities, so this jells with my POV that all these are psychological processes Idivaraku oka post vesanu - on the correspondence between Kundalini/chakra yoga and Maslow's need pyramid
I am inclined to think on the similar lines and also that the 3 grandhis are likes nervous junctions... but I have read a bit more to find the parallels- the vagus nerve could be one of the nadis too Have to go - good night aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Gandhiguevara Hero Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 17235 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.210.96.94 Rating: N/A |
matter sadive opika ledhu kaani, title keka  | ||
| Ishan Moderator Username: Ishan Post Number: 9079 Registered: 01-2009 Rating: N/A |
You can control your involuntary nervous system too. You can shut off your respiration, though it needs practice, its possible by conscious means. But I like your hypothesis. Kundalini is just an hypothetical yogic power sitting along with the CNS. Vivekananda acknowledges its non-existence, from yoga POV i.e. its not real but imagination which helps in practicing raja-yoga. It could be perceived that the 'Ida' and 'Pingala' nadis correspond to the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems of autonomic nervous system. These two, most of the times have opposite effects on the body. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9443 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: N/A |
Possibly by extending/curtailing opportunities to procreate ? Being eligible catches for marriage that allows propagation of the trsit ? aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Ishan Moderator Username: Ishan Post Number: 9078 Registered: 01-2009 Rating: N/A |
Not sure how convincing this argument could be, from a geneticist point of view. The traits mentioned in the first para are all of pertaining to the sustenance of the body, but how natural selection works for mental traits?, particularly for the traits that are exclusively expressed in the cultural setting? How does nature and/or natural selection 'comprehend' the concept of culture here? If there is any explanation from a geneticist, it would be educational to go through it. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9442 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: |
Caution : Not for the orthodox believers. Please do not read further if you are easily offended
Thank you Not for the post but because another article on that page furthered an idea that has been brewing in my head - putting my thoughts here Idivaraku couple times mention chesanu - the triune brain concept - like all theories it has its detractors But the first time I saw that concept, the name reptilian brain and its features, some things seemed to fall into place... Theory goes that human brain developed in 3 stages - I am going in the reverse order here from highest to lowest.. Neo Mammalian brain - Neocortex/cerebrum - the seat of rational thought, reasoning, logic , artistry, language Corresponds loosely to Freudian Super-ego? Paleo mammalian brain - limbic system , the seat of emotions, attention, and emotion-connected memories.This is also the seat of the buddhist vedana- feelings positive or negative Points to Freudian ego ? Reptilian brain - brain stem and cerebellum. this part of the brain controls autonomic functions,such as breathing and heartbeat and is is active, even in deep sleep. Points to the Freudian Id. It has similar behavioural programs as snakes and lizards-hence the name . It is rigid,ritualistic, obsessive, repetitive and paranoid. Most interestingly it is supposedly the seat of and "filled with ancestral memories". Calling Senapathy This is the thoughtstream I mentioned in the kundalini email.The secret knowledge left in the safekeeping of Nagas - they could be an allegory to the treasure trove of genetic treasures/ancestral memories in the reptilian brain - and hint at the significance of snakes in religions too Interestingly along the same lines, we have always been told that we have to shut off the mind to have any direct experiences. The only mind that can be shut off are the higher ones - rational/emotional processes of the neo and paleo mammalian brains.So do the direct experiences then reside in the reptilian brain..? Absolute Faith , belief also need the higher brain functions to be shut off...More connectiions of religion to the reptilian brain Also the 3 stages kind of loosely correspond to the trigunas The article on that page that triggered the pulling together of these thoughts - Interesting stuff http://ffrf.org/legacy/fttoday/2003/april/index.php?ft=lecla ir aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9441 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: N/A |
Interesting read - the part about the concreteness of schizotypal interpretation gave some valuable insights into understanding how their minds work The genetic selection of partial versions of certain diseases to combat more fatal ones was the subject of the book 'Survival of the sickest' - interesting that it extends to neuroscience/psychiatry too ... aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8093 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
Thanks bro | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 365 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.241.127.207 Rating: N/A |
actually Sapolsky does not support the view that everything is determined by Genes. He seems to suggest environment(epigenetics) is important for genes expression. you may want to check his video on The Genetics Myth and other videos of him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36HquPzdxf4&feature=related | ||
| Jcgaru Side Hero Username: Jcgaru Post Number: 2935 Registered: 01-2011 Posted From: 95.154.230.253 Rating: N/A |
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| Cocanada Legend Username: Cocanada Post Number: 31073 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 98.24.15.215 Rating: N/A |
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| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8089 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
kya JC...aa article lo Jagadamba C lanti vallu ante nee lanti valla gurinche cheppadu ankunta | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8088 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
Hey bhagvan, yaa khuda, holy jesus bhumiki research bharam ekkuva ayyipoindhi......Bharam tagginchu tandri P.S - Nisarga just joke, serious ga teesukokandi, nenu konchem anti-research type | ||
| Jcgaru Side Hero Username: Jcgaru Post Number: 2934 Registered: 01-2011 Posted From: 95.154.230.253 Rating: N/A |
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| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 8086 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.59 Rating: N/A |
mastaaru ee genes concept ki asalu adi, antham emanna vundha....anntha szeans ee antunnaru...asalu ee szeans ki life lo non physiological events correlation meedha evadaina research chesaada?........meeru post chesina research article chadivina taravatha ee kondalono,aduvulono putti vunte ee szeans research, anthropology,physics,abstract maths lanti bayankaramaina manasika jaadyalu tappevi emo, life ni vere dimension lo andham ga choose vallamu emo | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 364 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.241.127.207 Rating: N/A |
Robert Sapolsky talks on it. it may be a bit old but looks interesting. http://boingboing.net/2009/06/06/evolution-religion-s.html text is at:http://ffrf.org/legacy/fttoday/2003/april/index.php?ft=sapol sky Some excerpts: "What do modern neuroscience and psychiatry begin to tell us about how we as a species invent these systems of belief, these systems of organized, shared, ritualized, culture-bound beliefs?" What does this tell us about religion? It turns out there's a whole bunch of outposts where neuropsychiatry tells us something about the stuff we keep creating in culture after culture. Let me tell you about two very interesting examples of this, amid many. One of them has to do with one of the great puzzles when people think about the evolution of psychiatric disorders. Ever deal with anybody with one of the most horrendous of all psychiatric diseases, schizophrenia, and you come away just appalled at how a life can be demolished by some biological storm in the brain. Schizophrenia: a disease of disordered thought, disconnected socialization, hallucinations, paranoia, delusions, a 50% rate of attempted suicide. This is a totally disastrous disease, and it's one that we're very, very slowly beginning to understand the neurochemistry of. One of the keys about schizophrenia is that it's a disorder with a genetic component. That doesn't mean it is genetically guaranteed. It is not genetically determined. There is a genetic risk for this disease, as is the case with most psychiatric disorders. The minute you see there's any genetics on the scene, you've got to ask an evolutionary question, which is: "Where did these genes evolve from?" Why do we have schizophrenia in every culture on this planet? From an evolutionary perspective, schizophrenia is not a cool thing to have. What's evolution about? Evolution is the process by which adaptive traits become more common. Schizophrenia is not an adaptive trait. You can show this formally: schizophrenics have a lower rate of leaving copies of their genes in the next generation than unaffected siblings. By the rules, by the economics of evolution, this is a maladaptive trait. Yet, it chugs along at a one to two percent rate in every culture on this planet. So what's the adaptive advantage of schizophrenia? It has to do with a classic truism--this business that sometimes you have a genetic trait which in the full-blown version is a disaster, but the partial version is good news. What's the example we all learned in the textbook case? Sickle-cell anemia: full-blown version, fatal hematological disorder; partial version, you don't get malaria. Tay Sachs disease: full-blown version, your nervous system is destroyed within a couple of months of life; partial version, you're resistant to tuberculosis. Cystic fibrosis: full-blown version, you're typically dead by 20; partial version, you're resistant to cholera. This turns out to be a theme with a lot of human genetics. As long as there's enough folks with the advantageous partial version, you can afford the occasional cousin with the full-blown version. Evidence suggests this is what the genetics of schizophrenia is about. What's the partial version? It's the disease that got identified about 30 years ago. The first study that found genetic evidence for schizophrenics looked at about 20,000 people adopted in Denmark, looking at patterns of inheritability of schizophrenia; were you likely to share schizophrenic traits with your adopted parents, or your biological parents? This was a massive multi-year study. Psychiatrists talked to more relatives of schizophrenics than any psychiatrists had ever done before in a career. What they noticed was, there's something kind of weird about relatives of schizophrenics--not every single one of them, but at higher than expected rates. This "kinda weirdness" is now called "schizotypal personality." What is schizotypal? It's a more subtle version of schizophrenia. This is not somebody who's completely socially crippled; they're just solitary, detached: these are the lighthouse keepers, the projectionists in the movie theaters. These are not people who are thought-disordered to the point of being completely nonfunctional; these are people who just believe in kinda strange stuff. They are into their Star Trek conventions. They're into their astrology, they're into their telepathy and their paranormal beliefs, they're into--and you can see now where I'm heading [laughter]--very, very literal, concrete interpretations of religious events. Schizophrenics have a whole lot of trouble telling the level of abstraction of a story. They're always biased in the direction of interpreting things more concretely than is actually the case. You would take a schizopohrenic and say, "Okay, what do apples, bananas and oranges have in common?" and they would say, "They all are multi-syllabic words." [laughter] You say "Well, that's true. Do they have anything else in common?" and they say, "Yes, they actually all contain letters that form closed loops." [laughter] This is not seeing the trees instead of the forest, this is seeing the bark on the trees, this very concreteness. What you find with schizotypals is what is called metamagical thinking, a very strong interest in new-age beliefs, science fiction, fantasy, religion, but in a very concrete, literal form, a very fundamentalist style. Somebody walking on water is not a metaphor. Somebody rising from the dead is not a metaphor; this is reported, literal fact. Now we have to ask our evolutionary question: "Who are the schizotypals throughout 99% of human history?" And in the 1930s, decades before the word "schizotypal" even existed, anthropologists already had the answer. It's the shamans. It's the medicine men. It's the medicine women. It's the witch doctors. In the 1930s an anthropologist named Paul Radin first described it as "shamans being half mad," shamans being "healed madmen." This fits exactly. It's the shamans who are moving separate from everyone else, living alone, who talk with the dead, who speak in tongues, who go out with the full moon and turn into a hyena overnight, and that sort of stuff. It's the shamans who have all this metamagical thinking. When you look at traditional human society, they all have shamans. What's very clear, though, is they all have a limit on the number of shamans. That is this classic sort of balanced selection of evolution. There is a need for this subtype--but not too many. The critical thing with schizotypal shamanism is, it is not uncontrolled the way it is in the schizophrenic. This is not somebody babbling in tongues all the time in the middle of the hunt. This is someone babbling during the right ceremony. This is not somebody hearing voices all the time, this is somebody hearing voices only at the right point. It's a milder, more controlled version. Shamans are not evolutionarily unfit. Shamans are not leaving fewer copies of their genes. These are some of the most powerful, honored members of society. This is where the selection is coming from. What this shamanistic theory says is, it's not schizophrenia that's evolved, it's schizotypal shamanism that's evolved. In order to have a couple of shamans on hand in your group, you're willing to put up with the occasional third cousin who's schizophrenic. That's the argument; and it's a very convincing one. If you look at all these 1930s and 1940s anthropologists, there's a certain dead-white-male racism that runs through all of this stuff that anthropology still has not recovered from. If you read their writings, what was between the lines--and often not between the lines--was, this is about "them." This is about the folks with the bones in their noses and no clothes who wind up in the National Geographic nudie pictures. These are them and their subjective paranormal beliefs; thank God we live in objective modern societies. [laughter] What is perfectly obvious here is that this entire picture applies just as readily to our western cultures. Western religions, all the leading religions, have this schizotypalism shot through them from top to bottom. It's that same exact principle: it's great having one of these guys, but we sure wouldn't want to have three of them in our tribe. Overdo it, and our schizotypalism in the Western religious setting is what we call a "cult," and there you are in the realm of a Charles Manson or a David Koresh or a Jim Jones. You can only do post-hoc forensic psychiatry on Koresh and Jones, but Charles Manson is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. But get it just right, and people are gonna get the day off from work on your birthday for millennia to come. [laughter] |
