Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:45 pm:

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Kamal:

inka nenemi cheppali .. basic ga nuvvu ee premise ki stick ayyi argue chestunnav .. nenu if at all it delivers great social harmony, why not put people in order antunna !

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:41 pm:

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Indiarocks:

Nobody has a right to tell them the profession they have to chose.

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Indiarocks:

Meeru cheppina ages to ee discrimination, by ignorance, ni accept chese vallu.

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:20 pm:

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Onlytruth:

Pooja ki vache pantulu gaari daggara nunchi, Cheppulu kutte maadiga vadi daaka( including raitu kutumbaalu)andariki income levels same undetttu unte PERFECT ga undedhi existing system !

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:18 pm:

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Kamal:

ofcourse .. there cannot utopia in any argument .. alage .. 100% andaru happy ga unnaru ani aithe cheppanu nenu .. anduke antunna untaru .. oka 10-15% (mostly dalits .. ) oppressed laga feel ayyaru ani cheppu .. I will agree .. yes .. but do not say as though 90% were unhappy with the system and still they were forced upon these .. afterall, even in democracies, minorities of opinions/stands do not have a choice but to submit to the majority .. aint that right???

and lastly .. yes, cleaning $hit any time is painful and nenu anduke antunna .. if at all you have to pick somebody who is done injustice .. that would certainly be a Dalit .. but in the original caste system .. there are NO dalits ..

especially after us living and interacting with English countries/societies .. caste as a system might look retarded and oppressive .. but in reality .. it was good for a large section of the society .. though I agree there were a few things which should not have happened the way they did !

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:12 pm:

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Indiarocks:

You are telling me as if there was no body in those days who wanted to do something else, but everybody was happy with the system. Today, or 2000yrs ago cleaning somebody else's s&^t is never pleasant. And given a choice, nobody will chose that profession. Don't you think so? Even if they were not treated as untouchables.

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:56 pm:

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Kamal:

That was what society collectively chose to follow .. nuvvevaru adi discrimination ani decide cheyyadaniki? asalu ye basis meeda discrimination antunnav?

India lo anytime in the last 200 years .. the unemployment ranged from 70% to a lowest of 31% .. alanti society lo .. a system ensured .. most people had work, food and more importantly "respect" ..

But yes, dalits .. who were beyond the classified 4 varnas .. did suffer in the process due to untouchability .. which is deplorable and should have been avoided !

This is what well known historian Madhav Gadgil has to say about them ..

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Kamal:

they had no qualms for what they were ..

But you have problems with that system .. saying it is oppression/discrimination or whatever .. but on what standards do you say so? the modern education says .. we are all children of freewill right? let us for a second say .. since the age/era of freedom started in the last 100 years .. the world should have suddenly been a better place without violence/anarchy/exploitation/oppression/discrimination/crim e .. but what do the studies say? do they reflect the same ??? In a free society, supposedly todays, there should be no crime/fear .. etc the ones Tagore visualised in his Gitajanli .. but NO .. we are far away from anything near .. and the direction in which we seem to go now .. we surely seem to be readying ourselves for some trouble ! atleast the increasing patterns of violence/crime etc suggest that ..

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:40 pm:

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OT:

ee reddy,kapu,kamma blah blah sudrulanthaa okappudu i.e konni yugala kritam lowest caste forms....Brahmins,Kshatriyas tappa cheppukodaniki ye charitraa leni sudrulu aa time lo......They evolved over the period of centuires....by next few centuries current SC STs will also evolve.

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Onlytruth:

chusaara pantulu garu,maadiga vaadu ani automatic ga vachesindhi naa post lo type jesthunte...........daridrapu mentality adhe agravarnala dhi

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:09 pm:

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Bushu:

oka shudra intlo puttina pilladu saathvika gunam ekkuva kaligi undi, if he was willing to live the tough life of a brahman, it should have been allowed.

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quote:

Most important deities added to the Hindu pantheon after the Vedic period were dark-skinned, such as Vishnu (who has been described as meghavarnam, or dark as a cloud), Rama, Krishna, Shiva and Kali, which may reflect adivasi origins.[78] Today, these deities constitute the main divinities worshiped by most caste Hindus.[79] In a marked departure from the Indo-Aryan religion (although not directly contradicted by it), idol worship has also become firmly established for most Hindus, though exceptions such as the Arya Samaj school do exist.[80] Some historians and anthropologists assert that much of what constitutes popular Hinduism today is actually descended from an amalgamation of adivasi faiths, idol worship practices and deities, rather than the original Indo-Aryan faith.[76][81][82] This also includes the sacred status of certain animals and plants, such as monkeys, cows, peacocks, cobras (nagas), elephants, peepul, tulsi (holy basil) and neem, which may once have held totemic importance for certain adivasi tribes.[81]

[edit] Adivasi Saints
Saint Buddhu Bhagat, led the Kol Insurrection (1831-1832) aimed against tax imposed on Mundas by Muslim rulers.
Saint Dhira or Kannappa Nayanar[10], one of 63 Nayanar Shaivite saints, a hunter from whom Lord Shiva gladly accepted food offerings. It is said that he poured water from his mouth on the Shivlingam and offered the Lord swine flesh.[11]
Saint Dhudhalinath, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee (P. 4, The Story of Historic People of India-The Kolis)
Saint Ganga Narain, led the Bhumij Revolt (1832-1833) aimed against missionaries and British colonialists.
Saint Girnari Velnathji, Koli, Gujarati of Junagadh, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
Saint Gurudev Kalicharan Brahma or Guru Brahma, a Bodo whose founded the Brahma Dharma aimed against missionaries and colonialists. The Brahma Dharma movement sought to unite peoples of all religions to worship God together and survives even today.
Saint Jatra Oraon, Oraon, led the Tana Bhagat Movement (1914-1919) aimed against the missionaries and British colonialists
Saint Sri Koya Bhagat, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
Saint Tantya Mama (Bhil), a Bhil after whom a movement is named after - the "Jananayak Tantya Bhil"
Saint Tirumangai Alvar, Kallar, composed the six Vedangas in beautiful Tamil verse[12]
[edit] Sages
Bhaktaraj Bhadurdas, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
Bhakta Shabari, a Bhil woman that offered Shri Rama and Shri Laxmana her half-eaten ber fruit, which they gratefully accepted when they were searching for Shri Sita Devi in the forest.
Madan Bhagat, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
Sany Kanji Swami, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
Bhaktaraj Valram, Koli, Gujarati, a 17th or 18th century devotee [83]
[edit] Maharishis
Maharshi Matanga[84], Matanga Bhil, Guru of Bhakta Shabari. In fact, Chandalas are often addressed as �Matanga �in passages like Varaha Purana 1.139.91
Maharshi Valmiki, Kirata Bhil, composed the Ramayana.[36] He is considered to be an avatar in the Balmiki community.
[edit] Avatars
Birsa Bhagwan or Birsa Munda, considered an avatar of Khasra Kora. People approached him as Singbonga, the supreme spirit. He converted even Christians to his own sect.[13] He was against conversions by missionaries. He wanted not only political, but religious freedom as well![14] He and his clan, the Mundas, were connected with Vaishnavite traditions as they were influenced by Sri Chaitanya.[15] Birsa was very close to the Panre brothers Vaishnavites.
Kirata - the form of Lord Shiva as a hunter. It is mentioned in the Mahabharata. The Karppillikkavu Sree Mahadeva Temple, Kerala adores Lord Shiva in this avatar and is known to be one of the oldest surviving temples in Bharat.
Vettakkorumakan, the son of Lord Kirata.
Kaladutaka or 'Vaikunthanatha', Kallar (robber), avatar of Lord Vishnu.[16]
[edit] Other Tribals and Hinduism
Some Hindus believe that Indian tribals are close to the romantic ideal of the ancient silvan culture[85] of the Vedic people. Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar said:

"The tribals "can be given yajñopavîta (�) They should be given equal rights and footings in the matter of religious rights, in temple worship, in the study of Vedas, and in general, in all our social and religious affairs. This is the only right solution for all the problems of casteism found nowadays in our Hindu society.�[86]

At the Lingaraja temple in Bhubaneswar (11th century), there are Brahmin and Badu (tribal) priests. The Badus have the most intimate contact with the deity of the temple, and only they can bathe and adorn it.[87]

The Bhil tribe is mentioned in the Mahabharata. The Bhil boy Eklavya's teacher was Drona, and he had the honour to be invited to Yudhisthira's Rajasuya Yajna at Indraprastha.[88] Indian tribals were also part of royal armies in the Ramayana and in the Arthasastra.[89]

Bhakta Shabari was a Bhil woman that offered Shri Rama and Shri Laxmana 'ber' when they were searching for Shri Sita in the forest. Maharishi Matanga, a Bhil became a Brahmana.

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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 06:04 pm:

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quote:

Asalu oka person oka profession follow avvali, inkoti follow avvakoodadu antene discrimination. Inka following the system without discriminating enti?

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quote:

The Untouchables - Pariahs or Antyajas, were at the bottom of the social scale and even now perform the jobs nobody else wants such as raw sewage handling, killing animals or execution of criminals; They lived in special areas and were not allowed to read holy books. It is, however, rather interesting that people of all Jatis across the spectrum, from the so-called upper castes to the lowest of castes, including the Untouchables, tended to avoid intermarriage, sharing of food and drinks, or even close social interaction with a Jati other than their own. Indeed, most of the Jati castes did not see themselves as socially inferior to the others in any way. If at all, it was the other way round and most of them had folk narratives, traditions, myths and legends to bolster their sense of identity and cultural uniqueness.

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