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Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 275 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.37
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 06:23 am: |
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what i think i am suggesting is that there is no such thing as time,other than cycle of matter/energy state changes. |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 272 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.37
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 01:57 am: |
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Vjavasi:there is no absolute frame fo reference anedhe kadha relativity central idea
as for the case of aging twins... for e.x lets say twins are just born and one of them set out the travel. so now by the time the twin at rest started going to school, the other one in travel would still be learning walking. now,where ever we put the observer of the two twins-- either in rest frame or moving frame, the amount of time passed with respect to that frame or from within that frame is the same.but when the twins are compared on their biological changes in any frame, the rate of change is more for the one hitherto at rest. So the time flowed faster in that frame. simultaneity would actually require the frames of references in question required to be in a common outer frame of reference. |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2654 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 02:10 pm: |
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Vjavasi:with reference to many other planets we on earth might be moving at velocities comparable to speed of light
I dont think this is true. Vjavasi:at other's time is running faster and finally when they meet their age is same
No brother, aging happens for real in that case, I mean literally that guy would have had gray hair compared to the other. Chillarodu: So, there is no free will and future is determined?
Future is determined according the present. Even free will, if at all exists, is also a present event. When you come from the future and every thing else is the same why would even free will changes? That would happen only if you are aware that you have come from the future which is not the underlying hypothesis we are discussing here. ...and I am never gonna dance again...guilty feet I have got no rhythm...though its easy to pretend...I know you are not a fool... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQtlrBziyzI
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Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 271 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.184.83.162
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 12:55 pm: |
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Chillarodu:there is no absolute frame fo reference anedhe kadha relativity central idea
aunu. anduke common ani kuda rasa . my point was after traveling at near light speed and coming back to the twin the travelers body would be younger. to me it looks time is just rate of change. |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1879 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.61
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 12:34 pm: |
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Nisarga: the comparison valid and should be done from a common ground not from relative frames of references. in twins paradox the comparison actually is against common/absolute frame of reference or time or position or what ever.
there is no absolute frame fo reference anedhe kadha relativity central idea |
   
Chillarodu
Junior Artist Username: Chillarodu
Post Number: 260 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 148.87.67.136
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 07:57 am: |
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Ishan:See when you travel to the past, this present doesn't exist and you don't have any knowledge of it. So I am not sure why things will happen differently. Same patterns of randomness should repeat. Just like rewinding the tape and watching exactly the same movie.
So, there is no free will and future is determined? |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 269 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 123.237.219.141
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 01:36 am: |
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Vjavasi:with reference to many other planets we on earth might be moving at velocities comparable to speed of light since according to physics our universe is expanding...Do we age less compared to them?...we age at our own rate..even in twin paradox it's just perception of each twin when they are moving away that time is slow in other reference frame...in the turnaround journey each will perceive that other's time is running faster and finally when they meet their age is same
the biological process itself slows down. so the bodily changes would be different in twins when they meet. as i read if the observations made in the experiments are correct, the watches in their reference frames showed different times. the comparison valid and should be done from a common ground not from relative frames of references. in twins paradox the comparison actually is against common/absolute frame of reference or time or position or what ever. |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1868 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 202.133.58.53
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 03:20 pm: |
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Ishan:Physical reality will also be changed at and in side that particular space where these events are happening. Thats how aging happens in twin paradox.
with reference to many other planets we on earth might be moving at velocities comparable to speed of light since according to physics our universe is expanding...Do we age less compared to them?...we age at our own rate..even in twin paradox it's just perception of each twin when they are moving away that time is slow in other reference frame...in the turnaround journey each will perceive that other's time is running faster and finally when they meet their age is same |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2628 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.106.234
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 02:23 pm: |
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Vjavasi: if slowdown of one parameter(measured time) is causing changes to another parameter so that physical reality is not effected...what does it suggest the measurements are relative and they are parameters in a mathematical model that claim to explain that reality....how can we link this to time travel or even aging which should change physical reality..... Even if we consider decrease in the intensity of forces in a frame that is moving at velocity comparable to light relative to an observer at rest, inside the moving frame everything is normal...also for an observer in the moving frame time should slow down and intensity of forces should reduce in rest frame because of relative velocity...so it's their relative calculations that is changing not the physical reality which is same in both reference frames.
Physical reality will also be changed at and in side that particular space where these events are happening. Thats how aging happens in twin paradox. But, how this is related to time travel, I am not sure, but I strongly believe that we need to understand time and its relation to space before understanding time travel. Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1863 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:49 am: |
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Ishan:Imagine two objects one orbiting the other. If the time slows down where they are moving, proportionally gravity should decrease too. Otherwise those two objects will be pulled towards each other. So gravity adjusts itself according to the time change. Its just like slow motion video, where time slows and proportionally the motion and force decrease.
if slowdown of one parameter(measured time) is causing changes to another parameter so that physical reality is not effected...what does it suggest the measurements are relative and they are parameters in a mathematical model that claim to explain that reality....how can we link this to time travel or even aging which should change physical reality..... Even if we consider decrease in the intensity of forces in a frame that is moving at velocity comparable to light relative to an observer at rest, inside the moving frame everything is normal...also for an observer in the moving frame time should slow down and intensity of forces should reduce in rest frame because of relative velocity...so it's their relative calculations that is changing not the physical reality which is same in both reference frames. |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2592 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 12:53 pm: |
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Chillarodu:I think some things happen randomly. Given the same situation things happen differently in different time I think.. things will change.
Its a very good thought, but it gets dicey. See when you travel to the past, this present doesn't exist and you don't have any knowledge of it. So I am not sure why things will happen differently. Same patterns of randomness should repeat. Just like rewinding the tape and watching exactly the same movie. Nisarga:but somehow intuitively it looks to me that the internal vibrations/activity of a moving system reduce when the system is in motion.
yes, activity decreases because force and motion both decrease. Vjavasi:deeni meedha inkocham light veyyandi brother
Imagine two objects one orbiting the other. If the time slows down where they are moving, proportionally gravity should decrease too. Otherwise those two objects will be pulled towards each other. So gravity adjusts itself according to the time change. Its just like slow motion video, where time slows and proportionally the motion and force decrease. Nisarga:in fact time would not be an independent physical phenominon by itself.
Time is definitely not an independent phenomenon. Nisarga: in its natural course time would be irreversible and can potentially be cyclic...meaning it may pass the same states again in every period....like moving around the globe. OR, if the universe just expanding flat(if no spacetime curvature) it would reverse once the limit is reached.events would be like in rewind of a tape!?(what happens to consciousness/free will!!?)
Yes, infinite cylinder hypothesis states this. free will? do you think it exists? I think its just a myth. Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 268 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.34
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 04:52 am: |
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Vjavasi:with respect to whom time slows down?
w.r.t the systems that are still or moving with less speed than that of the one in question. |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 267 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.34
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 04:50 am: |
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Ishan:Yes, and to be more specific, it is motion plus force combined. When both of them are static, time freezes. But the question would be how do we rewind that change. If evolution or expansion in a direction is possible, involution or contraction must be possible in the same direction too, at least in theory! If a bud can become a flower, why is it not possible that the same flower goes back to its previous state i.e. bud?
with the that view the time is rate of change time travel does not make much sense. in fact time would not be an independent physical phenominon by itself. time travel would in fact be about altering the direction of state change or see the past changes by chasing the light/sound that got imprints of past events. in its natural course time would be irreversible and can potentially be cyclic...meaning it may pass the same states again in every period....like moving around the globe. OR, if the universe just expanding flat(if no spacetime curvature) it would reverse once the limit is reached.events would be like in rewind of a tape!?(what happens to consciousness/free will!!?) |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1862 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 11:53 pm: |
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Ishan:4 Time slows in negatively curved space. (General Relativity)
with respect to whom time slows down?
Ishan:6. Forces reduce in strength as part of slowing of time.
deeni meedha inkocham light veyyandi brother |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1861 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 11:37 pm: |
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Ishan:Right, time is unfolding of events. Its caused by motion which is caused by force. If there is no motion and force, there is no time.
I think time is not material...it's a part of consciousness...when we refer to time in physics we are actually refering to our measurements of time...just like uncertainity of any measurement we get different values depending on what we use to measure it |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2588 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.244.232
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 10:06 pm: |
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Nisarga: might be just change, state change.
Yes, and to be more specific, it is motion plus force combined. When both of them are static, time freezes. But the question would be how do we rewind that change. If evolution or expansion in a direction is possible, involution or contraction must be possible in the same direction too, at least in theory! If a bud can become a flower, why is it not possible that the same flower goes back to its previous state i.e. bud? Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 266 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.33
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 09:37 pm: |
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Ishan:What causes time?
might be just change, state change. |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 265 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.33
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 09:35 pm: |
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Ishan:Therefore when velocity of an object is increased the motion at the atomic level reduces and forces weaken in proportion, which is the observed slowing of time in moving bodies
I have not read relativity(general/special)-- i may not even understand it -- but somehow intuitively it looks to me that the internal vibrations/activity of a moving system reduce when the system is in motion. |
   
Chillarodu
Junior Artist Username: Chillarodu
Post Number: 248 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 148.87.67.134
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 06:17 pm: |
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let's assume we can travel back in time... and you went 10 years back. Also assume you don't remember what happens in that 10 years so you don't change anything intentionally. Does same things happen again starting from that time? Does nature behave exactly same as before? Do we take decisions and actions exactly same as before. I think some things happen randomly. Given the same situation things happen differently in different time I think.. things will change. The change starts as minute which is negligible in the starting and as the time passes the variation will be more and more. After 10 years you will not be in the same position. It will be something like you went in to a new universe leaving your's. |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2586 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 05:30 pm: |
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What causes time? Lets try few accepted concepts: 1. We live in an expanding universe. 2. Mass radiates gravitons which interact with space. 3. Mass produces negative curvature in space.(General Relativity) 4 Time slows in negatively curved space. (General Relativity) 5. Time also slows in moving objects. (Special Relativity) 6. Forces reduce in strength as part of slowing of time. The above concepts when combined with the following definition of time gives new insight into the laws of the universe: Time is the presence of motion and forces and is caused by the expansion of space 1. Gravitons radiating from matter (under influence of expanding space) interact with space to slow its expansion. 2. Slower expansion produces negative curvature in space. 3. Motion is slower and forces are weaker where expansion of space is slower and this is perceived as slower time in gravity. 4. Total amount of motion and forces (i.e. Energy) imparted by expanding space to a mass is a constant (MC^2). Therefore when velocity of an object is increased the motion at the atomic level reduces and forces weaken in proportion, which is the observed slowing of time in moving bodies. Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Nisarga
Junior Artist Username: Nisarga
Post Number: 264 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.35
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 01:49 pm: |
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1)time as rate of change 2)time in chronological sense time(rate of change) slows down at very high speeds-- time dilation seems a proven phenomenon. rate of change might near 0 at light speed. per my current understanding that might be the boundary condition and it would never reverse. per me time travel should mean state travel. travel into past means that the state of the universe reverted to the point where one traveled. the travel/traveler would vanish upon travel to point beyond his birth . if there is no state reversal then the time travel would mean that the state is replayed to the point.its just replay of the recorded events occurred over the time at a particular place. |
   
Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2917 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 68.119.69.49
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 01:13 pm: |
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Vjavasi:
bro, ivaala chala panulu unaayi, ee topic ki malli vadhamu, hopefully soon. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2582 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.106.234
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 12:16 pm: |
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Vjavasi: what if we don't move or the universe just freezes...then time won't change
Right, time is unfolding of events. Its caused by motion which is caused by force. If there is no motion and force, there is no time. Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1860 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 06:30 am: |
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Mental_sachinodu:theoretically we could bend the space, and if we could bend the space in a way that we could travel across large distances in much shorter intervals of time.
how will it reduce time...still we have to follow the curvature |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1858 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 06:17 am: |
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Ishan:May be we need to go beyond Euclidian space to understand this. Spacetime as an unit, if considered, when we move from one point to another, we not only traveled in space but also in time.
what if we don't move or the universe just freezes...then time won't change |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1857 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2010 - 06:13 am: |
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Mental_sachinodu:The issue with the knowing the direction of time, is that the way we analyse time in terms phsyical laws and our perception is different. time reversal is invariant, as per the physical laws, there is no distinction between the past and the future, as a possibility. If we consider a time span, at a macroscopic scale, it is not irreversible to us, as we hold the memory of the past time. this memory dictates the direction of time to us.
if science can't distinguish why do they say degree of disorder is increasing continuously.... i think our sense of direction of time is not psycological it's related to natural changes(motion of sun and other heavenly bodies)
Mental_sachinodu:When we are thinking about time travel, we need to understand the notion of displacement might include the space frame, time frame, or both frames. if we are considering displacement only in terms of time, this is a capability that we do not understand yet. the only displacement we can undersand is space displacement, whether it is at the speed of light or less than that, and even this displacement along the space frame at higher speeds effect's time component, which we are still trying to understand, through special relativity theories.
Excellent...i am getting more clarity with your posts ..if we measure displacement of light as time how does it physically effect anything...just there is difference in measurement of light displacement in two frames...how does it make a twin look younger physically....it may be true for half life calcualation of particles emitting or absorbing electromagnetic radiation....what about biological processes...why can't we say time is absolute and our measurement using light makes it relative |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2571 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 05:51 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu:and i always have doubts on whether space/vaccum is really empty, or is it some kind of medium that we cannot measure with the materials we posses.
See, now we are moving towards philosophy, something that is beyond perception of science . Standard model says dark energy occupies 74% of the universe and they are very positive that it wont interact with any of the fundamental forces except gravity! Now that's interesting in this context. If the vacuum is all dark energy and dark matter, then the theory of standing unbounded 'outside' of the space is not possible. Mental_sachinodu:Anti-matter is one such entity which can create such amounts of energy under right conditions ani anukuntunaaru.
That would be really interesting. Manam bathikunnappudu ittantivi evanna avuthe choosi povaalani undi... Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2907 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 63.161.147.10
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 05:04 pm: |
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Ishan:Taking this concept to another level, if we stand in the universe unbounded, and watch universe passing through, would we age? I mean if time moves along with space, when you stand still 'outside' of the space, is it possible you are beyond time because you are not traveling? then again the question comes whether only matter can be considered as space, how can we define 'outside' of the space? When they say universe is expanding, is the vacuum in between also expanding?
I have the same question in my mind for a long time now, i cannot comprehend how or what will be our situation when we are an observer not bound by the dimension of space we are observing. when they say the universe is expanding,everything in between the huge objects is increasing, and i always have doubts on whether space/vaccum is really empty, or is it some kind of medium that we cannot measure with the materials we posses.
Ishan:What if there is gravity with out matter? Is it possible? if energy is inter-convertible, why cant we generate gravitational force that is enough to bend the space?
yes, that is the basis for many of the scientists now. Energy can be created from mass, and viceversa, so if they can produce enough energy, equivalent to a mass that can bend space, it would create a worm hole. Anti-matter is one such entity which can create such amounts of energy under right conditions ani anukuntunaaru.
Ishan:Yeah, this M-theory and string theories are there but they are mainly applicable to sub-atomic particles and not to gross objects I guess.
yes, but most space is filled with sub atomic particles(or vaccum). the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2570 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 04:51 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu:we are also moving in time, and time is not an absolute entity,
Taking this concept to another level, if we stand in the universe unbounded, and watch universe passing through, would we age? I mean if time moves along with space, when you stand still 'outside' of the space, is it possible you are beyond time because you are not traveling? then again the question comes whether only matter can be considered as space, how can we define 'outside' of the space? When they say universe is expanding, is the vacuum in between also expanding? Mental_sachinodu:if enoungh gavitational force is generated, theoretically we could bend the space, and if we could bend the space in a way that we could travel across large distances in much shorter intervals of time.
What if there is gravity with out matter? Is it possible? if energy is inter-convertible, why cant we generate gravitational force that is enough to bend the space? Mental_sachinodu:No one knows the number of dimensions in space, various theories propose, and i once read that it could be upto 11 dimensions.
Yeah, this M-theory and string theories are there but they are mainly applicable to sub-atomic particles and not to gross objects I guess. Mental_sachinodu:in my view these theories are not much different from theories from religious scriptures, too complex to be verified. inka chala time paduthundhi, for us to be able to understand the universe.
Agree. Everything is speculation at this point. Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2898 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 63.161.147.10
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 03:25 pm: |
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Chillarodu:membrane theory (M-theory) lo anukuntaa 11 dimensions are identified. This is extension to string theory which has 10 dimensions.
yes it is M - theory. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Chillarodu
Junior Artist Username: Chillarodu
Post Number: 244 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 148.87.19.218
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 03:13 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu: it could be upto 11 dimensions
membrane theory (M-theory) lo anukuntaa 11 dimensions are identified. This is extension to string theory which has 10 dimensions. |
   
Jeter
Junior Artist Username: Jeter
Post Number: 385 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 208.53.138.228
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 03:00 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2893 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 63.161.147.10
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 02:53 pm: |
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Jodhaa:
 the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2892 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 63.161.147.10
Rating:  Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 02:52 pm: |
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Ishan:Spacetime as an unit, if considered, when we move from one point to another, we not only traveled in space but also in time.
yes, that is the basic concept, every time we are trying to move from one point in space to another, we are also moving in time, and time is not an absolute entity, time bends and relative influence of it due to gravity(actually this concept of gravity is the key for the worm hole concept). but within our perception, can we actually move to 2 days back and be in the same place, and how anedhi inka evariki theliyani concept. Ishan:Apparently hundreds of theories were propounded based on general relativity, including "worm holes" which is my favorite concept in which we travel from point A to point B by bending the space. Second would be based on the concept that spacetime rotates as an infinite cylinder and you can reach the same sapcetime point once again.
worm hole concept is one of my favorites too, it can be looked as an extension to Einstein's conception of gravity. until Einstein i think every one believed larger objects attract smaller bodies to them, but failed to contemplate the reason. Einstein proposed that spacetime is like a blanket, and when you put a mass of body on the blanket, the blanket bends, and any other object on the blanket will tend to roll down to the bigger object. so the bigger the mass, the bigger the bend of space and time. it was later proved that even light bends due to gravity. In the concept of worm hole, if enoungh gavitational force is generated, theoretically we could bend the space, and if we could bend the space in a way that we could travel across large distances in much shorter intervals of time.
Ishan:May be it can be explained by the existence of more than 4 dimensions. If we can sneak in to different dimensions, may we can go back to the dimension which we call as past!
in black hole concept, apparently the time frame can be split from the space frame leading to 4 dimensions, but these are theories only. No one knows the number of dimensions in space, various theories propose, and i once read that it could be upto 11 dimensions. in my view these theories are not much different from theories from religious scriptures, too complex to be verified. inka chala time paduthundhi, for us to be able to understand the universe. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2568 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 02:37 pm: |
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Parthasaradhi:Time is not a physical thing.. It is in mind.
That can't be true. I think time is one of the laws of nature. or may be its the cause of existence of nature along with space. If time is not real, how do we explain past and present? Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2567 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.106.234
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 02:28 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu: When we are thinking about time travel, we need to understand the notion of displacement might include the space frame, time frame, or both frames. if we are considering displacement only in terms of time, this is a capability that we do not understand yet. the only displacement we can undersand is space displacement, whether it is at the speed of light or less than that, and even this displacement along the space frame at higher speeds effect's time component, which we are still trying to understand, through special relativity theories.
Excellent post. Yes, the relationship between time and space needs to be determined in order to understand the nature of time. May be we need to go beyond Euclidian space to understand this. Spacetime as an unit, if considered, when we move from one point to another, we not only traveled in space but also in time. Apparently hundreds of theories were propounded based on general relativity, including "worm holes" which is my favorite concept in which we travel from point A to point B by bending the space. Second would be based on the concept that spacetime rotates as an infinite cylinder and you can reach the same sapcetime point once again. May be it can be explained by the existence of more than 4 dimensions. If we can sneak in to different dimensions, may we can go back to the dimension which we call as past! Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Jodhaa
Hero Username: Jodhaa
Post Number: 12320 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 117.204.68.124
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 01:16 pm: |
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Mental_sachinodu:
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Mental_sachinodu
Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu
Post Number: 2890 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 63.161.147.10
Rating:  Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 11:18 am: |
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Ishan:I personally think time travel is an impossible thing. Time limits nature. If one has to travel through the time, one must be able to go beyond the nature.
bro, when you are trying to consider travel through time, we need to understand that the time dimension, and space dimension are correlated. identifying time alone with out the space co-ordinate is incomplete, and identifying space alone with out the time co-ordinate is incomplete. This does not hold to our conventional view of time and space, we see them as two independent entities. To understand time travel, we need to first understand the direction of time, and flow of time. The issue with the knowing the direction of time, is that the way we analyse time in terms phsyical laws and our perception is different. time reversal is invariant, as per the physical laws, there is no distinction between the past and the future, as a possibility. If we consider a time span, at a macroscopic scale, it is not irreversible to us, as we hold the memory of the past time. this memory dictates the direction of time to us. there are various theories to solve this ambiguity with which we try to understand the direction of time. even the flow of time is a concept of perception to us, we define time in relative to "Now", that is the past and the future, and the "Now" is inconsistent, and it inherently assumes the space dimension to be "here". Now, considering a frame based on space and time, and the effect of gravity on it. gravity bends spacetime frame, it is highly likely that time bends and space bends effect the way time is percieved at different positions. When we are thinking about time travel, we need to understand the notion of displacement might include the space frame, time frame, or both frames. if we are considering displacement only in terms of time, this is a capability that we do not understand yet. the only displacement we can undersand is space displacement, whether it is at the speed of light or less than that, and even this displacement along the space frame at higher speeds effect's time component, which we are still trying to understand, through special relativity theories. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada |
   
Parthasaradhi
Junior Artist Username: Parthasaradhi
Post Number: 669 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 160.254.108.24
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 11:06 am: |
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And also Time is not a physical thing.. It is in mind. Science so far hasn't understand anything beyond physical plane. Since time is not on physical plane, it would be interesting to see how it tackles it. I think that's where religion and science respect each other and walk together... స్వీయ ఆరాధన - సర్వ ఆదరణ |
   
Jalsa
Moderator Username: Jalsa
Post Number: 11549 Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 11:00 am: |
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peck ankul: monna chile earthquake tho earth axis change ayyi earth now lost 1 sec anta
annai, h r u? 2012 antha mataash aa? |
   
Parthasaradhi
Junior Artist Username: Parthasaradhi
Post Number: 668 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 160.254.108.24
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 10:48 am: |
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To see whether time travel is possible or not, we need to understand 'time'. What is time. When it was started.. where it will end... Can we quantify it... Is there any absolute measurement to it... etc
 స్వీయ ఆరాధన - సర్వ ఆదరణ |
   
Sri_anji
Side Hero Username: Sri_anji
Post Number: 4634 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 64.86.141.133
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:25 am: |
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Jalsa:"Deja Vu".
Movie starts promising. However, it falls flat at the end. Cinema choosaka Same feeling cbn ntr same family.. adhikaram mama ki poyinaa alludu ki vachindhi....we are fine --- OT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmnFXHU2dqo -- Daivam |
   
Iamim
Side Hero Username: Iamim
Post Number: 3530 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 119.235.54.170
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:24 am: |
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quote:Also, are there any instances in Hindu mythology regarding TT? Special input from the Physics experts is much appreciated
Mythology ki Physics ki mudi pedithe emosthundi.. boodida... |
   
Elcaminocapastrino
Hero Username: Elcaminocapastrino
Post Number: 19530 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 64.132.73.46
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:22 am: |
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if someone can travel faster than speed of light then it can be achieved theoritically.....but to travel faster than speed of light then one needs infinite energy...adhi enni gaterodes n redbulls thagithey osthadho thelvadhu.. |
   
Jawmetri
Junior Artist Username: Jawmetri
Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 59.93.52.74
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:20 am: |
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Woodpecker:district 9 ki sold out ayithey deeniki ella, more of chick flick
time travellers wife was a cute chiklit story that male scifi geeks can also enjoy. |
   
Woodpecker
Side Hero Username: Woodpecker
Post Number: 6042 Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 161.165.196.84
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:20 am: |
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monna chile earthquake tho earth axis change ayyi earth now lost 1 sec anta |
   
Woodpecker
Side Hero Username: Woodpecker
Post Number: 6041 Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 161.165.196.84
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:14 am: |
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Ntr_fan:
district 9 ki sold out ayithey deeniki ella, more of chick flick  |
   
Ntr_fan
Megastar Username: Ntr_fan
Post Number: 21553 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 74.232.109.145
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 09:11 am: |
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enti woodpeck annai neeku nachaleda aa movie? tasteless pellow nuvvu.. |
   
Vjavasi
Comedian Username: Vjavasi
Post Number: 1852 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 08:05 am: |
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it's not possible...asalu time travel ee bull shit anukuntunna if time is relative .... special relativity ki time travel ki sambandham ee ledhu...special relativity just deals with relative times......one can have knowledge of time like trikalagnanis but can't travel in a given frame of relative time.....even trikalagnanis can't have knowledge of everything in immediate past and future.....only god knows everything absolutely because he is time himself (kala swaroopa)....he destroys everything in the form of time |
   
Woodpecker
Side Hero Username: Woodpecker
Post Number: 6038 Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 161.165.196.84
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 01:27 pm: |
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Ntr_fan:I watched Time travellers wife few weeks back..liked it immensely...movie was good...
 |
   
Jalsa
Moderator Username: Jalsa
Post Number: 11538 Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 11:41 am: |
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Der: time warps
This concept is explained in the movie "Deja Vu". Denzel uncle gaaani movie. Ishan annai oka paali soodandi. |
   
Raogaru
Junior Artist Username: Raogaru
Post Number: 907 Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 15.219.153.214
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:22 am: |
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Ishan:avuna? haven't watched it yet.
simple concept. ikkada mayam ayi yekkado teladam. movie anta adey...yee capability unnna candidates ni "jumpers" antar...adey movie. so ilanti scenes konni lachal untaay....ramayanam. mahabharatam etc. నన్ను ఇన్వాల్వు చేయకండి సార్ |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2564 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.244.232
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:19 am: |
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Raogaru: kaani "jumpers" movie lo concept meeda mastuga unnnay instances hindu mythology lo.
avuna? haven't watched it yet. Der_schuler:time warps
Yeah I heard about this one...neeku telisina details post cheyyi...whats the basis of this theory? Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |
   
Der_schuler
Side Hero Username: Der_schuler
Post Number: 4880 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 24.14.147.0
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:14 am: |
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Ishan:ANyways, I was wondering if there are any intriguing hypotheses in Physics regarding time travel . I know Einstein's twin paradox scratches the surface of this matter, but are there any other interesting theories and experiments about this concept.
time warps |
   
Raogaru
Junior Artist Username: Raogaru
Post Number: 903 Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 15.219.153.214
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:09 am: |
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time travelling meeda hindu mythology lo gurthuku ravatledu. kaani "jumpers" movie lo concept meeda mastuga unnnay instances hindu mythology lo. నన్ను ఇన్వాల్వు చేయకండి సార్ |
   
Ntr_fan
Megastar Username: Ntr_fan
Post Number: 21516 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 65.161.188.11
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 10:07 am: |
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I watched Time travellers wife few weeks back..liked it immensely...movie was good... |
   
Ishan
Side Hero Username: Ishan
Post Number: 2559 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.244.232
Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 01, 2010 - 09:58 am: |
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The other day I was watching Guy pearce's Time Machine and I liked it. There are few logical errors in the script, but its a well made movie. I personally think time travel is an impossible thing. Time limits nature. If one has to travel through the time, one must be able to go beyond the nature. ANyways, I was wondering if there are any intriguing hypotheses in Physics regarding time travel. I know Einstein's twin paradox scratches the surface of this matter, but are there any other interesting theories and experiments about this concept. Also, do you guys think time travel is plausible? If not why do you think it is not? Also, are there any instances in Hindu mythology regarding TT? Special input from the Physics experts is much appreciated  Gaanamidi...nee dhyanamidi...dhyanamulo naa praanamidi...praanamaina mooga gunde raagamidi... |