| Author | Message | ||
     Mental_sachinodu Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu Post Number: 4372 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 68.119.69.49 Rating: N/A |
that was my point too. there must have been a civilization before the literature starts, not the other way round. and there must have been an evolutionary development for the literature, and when we consider the pre-cursors to this literature and the civilization itself, there could have been other civilization predating vedic civilization anedhi argument. Also, vedic civilization started around these years ani chepthaaru, how do you explain that, how can we explain a start to such a civilization. today we found a city that is 4000 yrs old, tomorrow we might find one that is 8000 yrs old. and this 8000 yr old civilization could still be vedic, or could have been a civilization that leads up to vedic civilization anedhi basic argument. its not whether the civilzation started 4000 yrs, 8000 yrs ago, there are so many misconceptions about how we as a civilization endured time. Also, my point was in conjencture here, not one post in this thread pertains to the findings of the city or or what it could mean. it ended up in the dates when vedic civilization might have started. not one discussed the religious evolution of Buddhism and Hinduism which was in the article. my point was that we start to jump to conclusions, and try to refute other views, without enough focus on what we need to learn from the new findings. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1985 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 209.97.203.60 Rating: N/A |
Modern Archeology and science is so young we are still at infancy when we see the geological timeline in discovering things. Some more interesting news. There was a program about this on Discovery or Geographic some time ago where a particular priest sect in kerala practices rituals and mantras in a language pretty similar to the aborigine language read on .. They Share Telltale Mutations With Modern-Day Indian Population, Reveals Genetic Research July 23, 2009 Washington: Genetic research conducted by a team of Indian scientists has indicated that aborigines, who initially arrived in Australia via south Asia, may have originated from India. The evidence was found by Dr Raghavendra Rao, who worked with a team of researchers from the Anthropological Survey of India, to find telltale mutations in modern-day Indian populations that are exclusively shared by Aborigines. For the research, the team sequenced 966 complete mitochondrial DNA genomes from Indian ârelic populationsâ. âMitochondrial DNA is inherited only from the mother and so allows us to accurately trace ancestry. We found certain mutations in the DNA sequences of the Indian tribes we sampled that are specific to Australian Aborigines,â said Rao. This shared ancestry suggests that the Aborigine population migrated to Australia via the so-called âSouthern Routeâ. The âSouthern Routeâ dispersal of modern humans suggests movement of a group of hunter-gatherers from the Horn of Africa, across the mouth of the Red Sea into Arabia and southern Asia at least 50 thousand years ago. Subsequently, the modern human populations expanded rapidly along the coastlines of southern Asia, southeastern Asia and Indonesia to arrive in Australia at least 45 thousand years ago. The genetic evidence of this dispersal from the work of Rao and his colleagues is supported by archeological evidence of human occupation in the Lake Mungo area of Australia dated to approximately the same time period. Discussing the implications of the research, Rao said, âHuman evolution is usually understood in terms of millions of years. This direct DNA evidence indicates that the emergence of âanatomically modernâ humans in Africa and the spread of these humans to other parts of the world happened only fifty thousand or so years ago.â âIn this respect, populations in the Indian subcontinent harbor DNA footprints of the earliest expansion out of Africa,â he added. âUnderstanding human evolution helps us to understand the biological and cultural expressions of these people, with far reaching implications for human welfare,â he added. ANI http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path= CAP/2009/07/23/17/Img/Pg017.png Australian Aborigines Initially Arrived Via South Asia ScienceDaily (July 21, 2009) â Genetic research indicates that Australian Aborigines initially arrived via south Asia. Researchers have found telltale mutations in modern-day Indian populations that are exclusively shared by Aborigines. Journal reference: 1. Satish Kumar, Rajasekhara REDDY Ravuri, Padmaja Koneru, B P Urade, B N Sarkar, A Chandrasekar and V R Rao. Reconstructing Indian-Australian phylogenetic link. BMC Evolutionary Biology, (in press) [link] http://www.biomedcentral.com/bmcevolbiol/ Reconstructing Indian-Australian phylogenetic link. Satish Kumar , Rajasekhara REDDY Ravuri , Padmaja Koneru , B P Urade , B N Sarkar ,A Chandrasekar and V R Rao BMC Evolutionary Biology 2009, 9:173doi:10.1186/1471-2148-9-173 Published: 22 July 2009 Abstract (provisional) Background An early dispersal of biologically and behaviorally modern humans from their African origins to Australia, by at least 45 thousand years via southern Asia has been suggested by studies based on morphology, archaeology and genetics. However, mtDNA lineages sampled so far from south Asia, eastern Asia and Australasia show non-overlapping distributions of haplogroups within pan Eurasian M and N macrohaplogroups. Likewise, support from the archaeology is still ambiguous. Results In our completely sequenced 966-mitochondrial genomes from 26 relic tribes of India, we have identified seven genomes, which share two synonymous polymorphisms with the M42 haplogroup, which is specific to Australian Aborigines. Conclusions Our results showing a shared mtDNA lineage between Indians and Australian Aborigines provides direct genetic evidence of an early colonization of Australia through south Asia, following the âsouthern routeâ. Adapted from materials provided by BioMed Central, viaEurekAlert!, a service of AAAS. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090721214628.ht m In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1984 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 209.97.203.60 Rating: N/A |
nobody knew until now there existed a city 4000BC. This is what I was saying we do not know how many such sites exist in present day India and when or if they would be discovered. Your point of view says show me the proof and you would believe it some others would say information referred to classical texts and manuscripts if good enough for them. The point I am trying to make is the vast amount of knowledge that is referred to in the vedas and the other treatise's cannot be conjured out of nothing in few years. It has to be an effort where this knowledge would have been gathered over thousands of years and collated somewhere and at the same time being transmitted from generation to generation so that it would not be lost. Though this is not relevant to the topic here I just wanted to share my opinion on something else here - our varna system. There has to be a code somewhere that ties the whole thing on why the society was divided in to the 4 sects and how the distribution of work took place etc. I see a division of labour/ SME's if you must call them when the varna system came up. There are checks and balances in every place so one varna cannot live without the support of the other. Gradually it became instutionalized and lead to the degraded form that it is in currently. The sheer genius of the societal architects in dividing the duties of the people in accordance with their skills and putting the checks and balances to none of them get too powerful worked well for thousands of years. Now coming back to the topic agama shastra never said it is independent of vedas or existed on its own. There are no references I have come across that suggested it. In fact both of them compliment each others. We should be greatful though to the Tami;s who carried on the traditions in their own way. The literature pertaining to Agamas is written in a complex form in both sanskrit and ancient tamil. So anybody who knew both the languages perfectly could decipher the information and hence it prevented others from acquiring that knowledge. While the rest of the civilization lost some of its knowledge and tradition to external influences the agama's retained theirs through their restrictive practices. In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Kamal Hero Username: Kamal Post Number: 16709 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 24.0.123.37 Rating: N/A |
why? what is the difficulty? "To be born free is an accident. To live free is a privilege. To die free is a responsibility" - Indian Army | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7854 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: |
Anta ledu lendi - just feel it has reached a point of diminishing returns  I like your next post - now let me put some points on the table for you all. Humans populated all of India many thousands of years before Indus valley died out. Prior to the composition of the Vedas on the banks of Saraswati, across the country there must have been other philosophies that evolved and developed independent of the Vedic influence, to me that is non-vedic civilization - does that sound so farfetched in the days prior to easy travel across the country ? What is the periodicity of the Vedic influence radiating out from Indus Valley to the rest of the country ? Are there older remnants of fire-sacrifice constructs elsewhere across the country ? Are there mentions of other geographical landmarks in the early vedas that show awareness of the eastern side of the country beyond Saraswati ? To me those are the interesting questions. If not - what happened to the philosophies/civilizations that developed indigenously in pockets across the country ? Some claim Agamas were a composition independent or even prior to the Vedas, others say they are a derivative of the vedas - how do you establish who is right? All the scriptures have become so intertwined that it difficult to establish chronology based on them - so you have to go back to archaeological evidence or referential evidence in the scriptures of astronomical ephemeris data I have difficulty believing that all of a sudden one fine day the backward human race was gifted with Vedas on the banks of Haravati as their first philosophy And BTW, I have never given much credit to Max Muellar Have to go aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1983 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 70.38.37.231 Rating: |
This is a plausible explanation. Civilization should have existed to have noted the important things mentioned in the vedas. We must also recognize that the vedas that we have today are just one part of the whole which has been lost to time. It still amazes me that some of the things mentioned in vedas are pillars of scientific knowledge of the modern era science. Such knowledge is only possible if the civilization is highly developed and I am willing to accept it purely as scientifically advanced than any science of today and forget about any religious implications. They had a vision to encode all the science in form of hymns etc so that it would not be lost and tried to perpetuate it by sruthi and smriti or different other forms across the old world. Hats of to the intelligent beings whom we call 'Rishis' today , they might have been the super scientists of their time. In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Dts Junior Artist Username: Dts Post Number: 736 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 78.46.79.86 Rating: |
I think, it is going reverse for you. ekkaDainaa civilization first erpaDDa taruvaata literature develop avutundi andulo Vedas laaTi monolithic literary work compile/understood/spread avvali anTe entha civilisation undaali aaloochinhanDi. కోటిపల్లికి దారడిగి కొండపల్లికి వెళ్తున్నావేమిటి? ...మనసు మార్చుకున్నాను! DTS "The digital experience" | ||
| Dts Junior Artist Username: Dts Post Number: 735 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 78.46.79.86 Rating: N/A |
No need to apology and I know you are not pointing anybody in specific. Your statement sounded more of frustration which I never expect from academicians. For me, the so called Vedic civilisation theory proposed by westerns is all fabricated and biased. Max Muller's supposition is purely based on linguistics and there is no factual support to it. Of course, linguistics is not that simple, his work though commendable fails to be neutral. He being a clergy person postulated his own interpretation which is totally biased. I can certainly see that based on what I have read. That's about him. I don't know any other stores which dated Vedas or civilisation. కోటిపల్లికి దారడిగి కొండపల్లికి వెళ్తున్నావేమిటి? ...మనసు మార్చుకున్నాను! DTS "The digital experience" | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7851 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Defensive kadu, plain self-interest 3-4 years nunchi discuss chesinave ee topics - appudu na point of view patient ga explain chesedanni... Must be my advancing age, I don't have that patience or time anymore to write reams It is faster and more productive to do my reading on my own - so your posts/links are much appreciated I will post any resources I come across too aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1979 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 76.76.103.227 Rating: |
there is no need to be defensive, you have your own views which contradict some of our views which is fine. I would not go to the extent of not participating in a discussion just based on that. Everything that we know in the current world does not have an explanation but that does not mean they do not exist we just do not know enough about it to be able to explain it. You choose to believe it if there is a scientific explanation for it which is your belief system and some others choose to believe it based on their own belief system. The entire corpus of scientific knowledge itself is finite and is based on science that we humans created.So in essence we framed the rules and the boundaries and decided that this is science and we measure anything and everything by those standards. It is just a view point and should not stop one from having a healthy discussion In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Kamal Hero Username: Kamal Post Number: 16693 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 24.0.123.37 Rating: N/A |
ela??? ala ani ekkadaina raasunda? how did u decide that? "To be born free is an accident. To live free is a privilege. To die free is a responsibility" - Indian Army | ||
| Simpletruth Comedian Username: Simpletruth Post Number: 1021 Registered: 02-2010 Posted From: 66.239.163.31 Rating: N/A |
thats factually incorrect statement. manollu srilanka nu, sumitra,java(current malaysia, indonesia) kingdoms ni occupy chesaru. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7847 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
,
That comment was not meant for specifically any of you all in the thread and I am sorry that it sounded that way  Been in too many discussions here that start from data and evidence and go the emotional terrains of beliefs, affiliations, religious pride etc. etc. Ippudu aa discussions loki velle interest opika ledu so munde withdraw ayyanu I apologise again, and please continue discussing - everyone learns even if they don't participate aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Saughmraat Junior Artist Username: Saughmraat Post Number: 448 Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 202.164.25.5 Rating: N/A |
vaammooo.... endi vaadu indians ki iranians ki 1000s of years back nunchi war jarugutuuu vundi ani raasaadu??? manollu indian penunsula ni daati bayati janaalatho eppudu kotlaadinaaru?? | ||
| Mental_sachinodu Side Hero Username: Mental_sachinodu Post Number: 4359 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 68.119.69.49 Rating: N/A |
malli kottesukuntunaara.. kaanivvandi.. yekkadoo thavvakalo edho bayata vadindhi anta, adhi ento dhani gurinchi discos seyyakunda, timelines deadlines decide ayipothunnar... ok, so vedas originate ayyina roju ninchi vedic civilization ani thelchar annamaata last ki. sare, origination point ninchi entha distance varaku vedic civilization on the same day start ayyindho kooda seppeyandi. the world of appearances may or may not be real, or both may and may not be real - or may be indescribable; or may be real and indescribable, or unreal and indescribable; or in the end may be read and unreal and indescribable - its all Syadvada | ||
| Ishan Side Hero Username: Ishan Post Number: 5419 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.89.186.226 Rating: N/A |
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| Jalsa Moderator Username: Jalsa Post Number: 14198 Registered: 02-2008 Rating: N/A |
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| Ishan Side Hero Username: Ishan Post Number: 5415 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.89.186.226 Rating: N/A |
eppudu originate ayyayi annadi kaadu...entha powerful annadi important | ||
| Dts Junior Artist Username: Dts Post Number: 732 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 78.46.79.86 Rating: |
This indeed is epitome of emotion!!!! I've never seen any academic enthusiast being so pre-judgemental as if you personally know everybody being emotional. In fact my question is purely academic, if you've noticed. Vedas have references to creating this solar system itself and lot of amazing facts which one cannot date unless biased acutely. కోటిపల్లికి దారడిగి కొండపల్లికి వెళ్తున్నావేమిటి? ...మనసు మార్చుకున్నాను! DTS "The digital experience" | ||
| Ruj Side Hero Username: Ruj Post Number: 2698 Registered: 03-2007 Posted From: 76.17.165.117 Rating: N/A |
naa uddesam adhi kaadu..oka version cheppanu to prove vedas pre date 5000BC anedaniki.. Congress, the worst thing ever to happen to Bharat | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1978 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 204.174.60.234 Rating: N/A |
I agree there are different view points and not necessary everybody has to agree with mine or somebody else's. Anything that comes out with proof is acceptable academically and there is no way to negate that. I would definitely share any information I get with friends. In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7845 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
I think there are artifacts from the civilization that date more recent than that- to my mind that means Saraswati dried a lot later than 5000 BCE Anyway , my interest in religious history is purely academic I am not emotionally attached to the age of any scripture / civilization - unlike a lot of the people here.. Its better I stay out of these discussions - you guys continue aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Ruj Side Hero Username: Ruj Post Number: 2695 Registered: 03-2007 Posted From: 76.17.165.117 Rating: N/A |
exactly..aryan invasion theroy ki supportive ga allesaru anni timelines..actuality choosukunte asal match avavvu.. Congress, the worst thing ever to happen to Bharat | ||
| Ruj Side Hero Username: Ruj Post Number: 2694 Registered: 03-2007 Posted From: 76.17.165.117 Rating: N/A |
hmm..in all the first 3 vedas there r references to saraswathi river..post vedic literaturelo mathrame saraswathi river dry ayipoyina references unayi..and most of the gelogists estimate this to have happened between 4000-5000BC..which means vedas must have been written even before that.. Congress, the worst thing ever to happen to Bharat | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 4588 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.192.17 Rating: N/A |
yeah i agee....we can excavate something lost and buried....but in india very few populated might have been buried below the surface....almost all cities mentioned in literature are present even today....how can we determine the age of these cities which are trasforming with new structures replacing new from time immemorial | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7844 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: |
Let me know if you find it
Naku telisina dating is around 3000 BC in north west India ...mee deggira inkemaina dating data/research unte ivvandi aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1977 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 204.174.60.234 Rating: |
i always said vedic civilization is much older than what the modern historians say it is. In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Dts Junior Artist Username: Dts Post Number: 730 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 78.46.79.86 Rating: |
What kind of statement is it? Who dated Vedic civilisation? Max Muller? కోటిపల్లికి దారడిగి కొండపల్లికి వెళ్తున్నావేమిటి? ...మనసు మార్చుకున్నాను! DTS "The digital experience" | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1976 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 204.174.60.234 Rating: N/A |
may be some new light : http://19000years.blogspot.com/ i know its far reaching for a theory but a good study. I am trying to see if I could get this book online somewhere. In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1975 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 204.174.60.234 Rating: |
could not agree more with your statement. there are many more things in this world we have no idea about.geological time scale is so huge a few thousand years here and there are nothing. unfortunately with the kind of population we have our chances to excavate any of the lost cities have remote chances unless something like this happens. This is another article that show a city older than 2000 years discovered in present day orissa close to bhubhaneshwar http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/A-city-bigger-than- Athens/articleshow/6270354.cms In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 7843 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: |
Great find If the dating is confirmed it will confirm the theory that civilization in India predated the Vedic civilization aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Side Hero Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 4587 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: |
This demolishes the myth that gangetic plain was civilized only after the destruction of harappan civilization followed by migration to gangetic plain...generations were brainwashed by this colonial-marxist propaganda | ||
| Okahyderabadi Comedian Username: Okahyderabadi Post Number: 1974 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 204.174.60.234 Rating: N/A |
As one travels from Lucknow to Kanpur, two huge mounds on both sides of the Ganga bridge leave one awestruck. These were no more than encroached barren lands till our Indiana Joneses discovered it for the world. Nearly five decades after the 'civilisation' of Jajmau â dating back to circa 1200-1300 BC â was first explored, it continues to throw up new surprises. Archaeologists have now found traces of an era that could go back to, hold your breath, 4000 BC. Not more than 25 km from this site, there is Sanchan Kot in Unnao district, rich with remains of the Mauryan and Kushan periods. And moving eastwards, if Sarnath needs no introduction, there are new sites discovered not very long ago â Anai in Varanasi and Agiabir in Mirzapur district. And a new light is all set to be thrown on Ghoshitarama, discovered with a giant monastery, in Kaushambi district. Read more: Maya's kingdom goes back to 4000 BC - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mayas-kingdom-goes- back-to-4000-BC/articleshow/6270299.cms#ixzz0ystfBT6S http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mayas-kingdom-goes- back-to-4000-BC/articleshow/6270299.cms In history there is no such thing as the last word on any subject research leads to new things every day |
