| Author | Message | ||
     Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6030 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Check this out ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/23/man-trapped-coma -23-years The Belgian former engineering student, who speaks four languages, said he coped with being effectively trapped in his own body by meditating. He told doctors he had "travelled with my thoughts into the past, or into another existence altogether". Sometimes, he said, "I was only my consciousness and nothing else". The moment it was discovered he was not in a vegetative state, said Houben, was like being born again. "I'll never forget the day that they discovered me," he said. "It was my second birth". Experts say Laureys' findings are likely to reopen the debate over when the decision should be made to terminate the lives of those in comas who appear to be unconscious but may have almost fully-functioning brains. aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Lionswalkalone Side Hero Username: Lionswalkalone Post Number: 6222 Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 204.124.181.143 Rating: N/A |
  | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 425 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
If emotion/passion is a trait of ego..then what is the root of ego... even if we accept that consciousness merges with super-consciouness without any identity of its own..why should we think super-consciousness has no emotions...atleast super-consciousness should have an identity and its own feelings may be spiritual feelings | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1036 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Raja-yoga of pathanjali is the first official system and the most ancient of all yogas (even though traces of meditation can be traced back to the times of aranyakas) and considered as an authority by all other yoga schools. Yes, it does mention Ishvara worship in the niyama stage of asthanga, nevertheless its not a mandatory. Emotion/passion is a trait of ego. I am not judging whether it is good or bad, but unless ego is transcended, one can not be dispassionate which is the feature of super-conscious stage attained by a para-bhaktha. Its a mistake to think that emotions exist in that stage. Yes, once they come back to the normal conscious stage, they still worship their deity, but now they know. Bottom line is most of religious practices involve passion/emotion which makes them subjective and not objective. Scientific method on the other hand is purely objective. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6028 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Formatting error in previous post - should read as
I stated my "belief" about science - where did I quote any scientific philosophy ? } aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6027 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
that it is only a matter of time before science is able to explain everything - how much time anedi telidu but science will get there }
I stated my "belief" about science - where did I quote any scientific philosophy ? 
UG again ?
You hit the nail on the head - human beings need closure on the questions they have and religion in some form or fashion provides them...but these answers are subjective and generic - they are not really something that can be validated - hence the scope for skepticism... Maybe when as you said Truth does hit mankind and as Nisarga said when Truth can be validated repeatably against a defined methodology all speculation will be laid to rest Till then, the debate will go on aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 414 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
we can call them spiritual technologies which are helpful in the spiritual path
In our culture everything is part of a holistic spiritual framework..that's is true with all ancient cultures...astrology is used to identify good or bad periods in the cosmic cycle..it's a kind of spiritual technology...I think study of scriptures is part of patanjali's ashtanga yoga
Patanjali's raja-yoga is only one among many paths, again objectivity depends on the nature of practitioner..i think he too talks about ishwara in his sutras..we can call it objective if objectivity means lack of emotions...why should we think emotions are negative or material feelings....In bhakthi traditions bhakthi is means and goal of spiritual path..its's not that they become objective and emotionless at the end of path...they go to different lokas and associate with lord..bhakthi literature like bhagavatha and other puranas is full of such personalities like narada,prahlada,dhruva,bali..they can be one with god or different with god depending on their mood and enjoyment | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1032 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38 Rating: N/A |
Ok my definition of religious practice is any practice that leads you to the attainment of the super-conscious state. As per that definition, except Dhayna or Meditation, none of the other you mentioned come under my definition of objective methodology which is any method that doesn't involve emotion or passion or feelings of the subject. Only Dhyana which is almost the final stage of yoga is that kind of state. Hatha-yoga and pranayama are just the preparatory stages. Chanting, prayer, tantra, yajna and homa involves intense attachment/feeling to the deity you are worshiping. In fact homa and yajna never gives you liberation directly, strictly speaking from samhitha point of view in which they were primarily entailed to please gods and not for salvation. Interesting that you consider astrology as religious practice. And Reading scriptures??? My point is that only pathanjali raja-yoga is such a system which can be called as pure objective or scientific method in all religions. Dualistic creeds start purely as subjective methods but only in final stages become objective with out emotions as the aspirants have transcended the ego. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 409 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
hatha-yoga,pranayama,dhyana,chanting,prayer,yagna,homa,archa na,astrology,reading scriptures,yantra,tantra....all practices approved by different time tested traditions...all these practices are objective to whoever is practicing them...if any one wants to find objectivity in them they have to be trained in that discipline..just like a physiscist is trained to understand physics | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1031 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.106.234 Rating: N/A |
Just out of curiosity, can you enlist such religious practices that come under objective methodology? All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Iamim Side Hero Username: Iamim Post Number: 2185 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 118.94.226.122 Rating: N/A |
Yeah.. as a kid I used to believe these stories.. But.. science is just polished speculation with no end answers.. I wont say religion has convincing answers.. but science is no better.. it can only tell stories that will satisfy school going kids.. no more.. frustrating thing is that science has no answers to deep philosophical questions.. at the same time it condemns spiritual theories as bogus sans providing a convincing answer to quench the thirst... | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
religious practices could also come under that objective methodology... you could see truth in those practices by practicing them...If you have to understand quantum mechanics you need trianing as a physicist..not every body sees the logic behind quantum mechanics | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 246 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.8.1 Rating: N/A |
truth is logically ascertained premise. it is based on your logic. no problem as long as it remains your truth. if you want someone(or may be a large group of people or everyone) buy your truth it should be validated against an sound objective methodology. I do not see any better methodology than science for this. | ||
| Der_schuler Side Hero Username: Der_schuler Post Number: 2642 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 148.159.160.51 Rating: N/A |
your faith or lack thereof is inconsequential. Finite time to conceive a tentative mechanism of nature is one of the GIVENS of scientific philosophy. In fact a lot of scientists use that phrase to discern between science and meta physics...any claim that associates "given sufficient time" is relegated to metaphysics per the acceptable notions of science today. I guess u need to first get well versed with the scientific philosophy before resorting to quoting it | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6026 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
 logic..reason...science - very logical progression anukunta aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6025 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
I agree with religion having positives and negatives and so does science. The problem is how they are used and the impact they can have. And whether we like it or not , people of faith can be manipulated more easily that people of science. Because science has to prove its promises before it finds takers but religion can make promises of intangible benefits and make people go to extremes - whether it is the promise of heaven, houris, or eternal bliss This makes religion easier to peddle - both for positive and negative purposes And scientists have difficulty even gaining acceptability for vaccines and preventive medical procedures that they know can help humanity ? Is it any surprise that they resent the grip religion has on the minds of the people that makes a patient goes to a village quack instead of a doctor and someone they could have saved loses his life ? Have to go and paint a room - will talk later aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1030 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38 Rating: N/A |
Looks like this thread took a drastic turn, now its science vs religion... All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 402 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
I have no complain against them if they do their work and know their limitations...problem is they claim they are the only repositories of knowledge and every one should be convinced by their reason/logic...they ridicule simple faith as superstion, something backward,unsophisticated what not..to support their stand they claim religion is the cause of conflict..science is also directly or indirectly responsible for so many problems and conflicts today..if science has something good..then religion is also equally good..nothing is superior or inferior.. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6024 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Probably and then mankind will document the exact process of realizing Truth scientifically Science explains phenomenon - it does not create them anukuntunna aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 401 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
 | ||
| Iamim Side Hero Username: Iamim Post Number: 2174 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 118.94.226.122 Rating: N/A |
Before Science hits the Truth.. Truth will hit Mankind.. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6023 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Why are you attributing unnecessary fears of exposure to the scientific community ? They are working on their faith , you are on yours Is there any need to demean their faith ? Vallani meeru pygmies mimmalni vallu pygmies ante vachedi emi ledu Everyone is trying to understand the human condition- they are trying to reach an answer that no one today conclusively has - thru their own ways based on their beliefs , their reasoning and their observations Human ego does not need to be satisfied anukuntunna the day it is satisfied the world will come to a stand still on intellectual progress Only when the ego is unsatisfied with status quo it tries to change its condition ...When all is satisfied what you will have is inert universe
Can you quantify how much time or even janmas it will take you to reach realization ? But you still believe you will do it don't you ? I have that faith in science. aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Der_schuler Side Hero Username: Der_schuler Post Number: 2641 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 148.159.160.51 Rating: N/A |
Science runs on quantized expectations | ||
| Der_schuler Side Hero Username: Der_schuler Post Number: 2640 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 148.159.160.51 Rating: N/A |
LOL...How much time ane quantization lekunda even I can say that given enough time, I can invent the theory of everything....and there is no logicity behind that statement. | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 398 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
Even with hundred breakthroughs they cannot satisfy man's inflated ego...currently they know about four (gravitational,electromagnetic,weak and strong forces) what they call fundamental forces..they are working on a mathematical theory to fit all these forces..even if they could fit these forces into theory...it will be very difficult for them experimentally prove the existence of such a unified force.....somehow if they could identify fifth fundamental force..they will have to find a new theory that could fit this fifth force....even if they could identify 10000 fundamental forces and unify all of them and in parallel develop some amazing new technologies based on new found knowledge...will that satisfy man? Hiranyakashyapa was able to control even seasons,crops,temperature...was he satisfied? his hatred towards vishnu increased proportional to his achievements Already some of these pigmies realising that they will be exposed are bringing forward the ultimate atheistic theory which doesn't require them to show any proof chaos theory, randomness..which means everything is random and by chance... | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6019 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Maybe that is just a perception based on today's knowledge - till the next big breakthrough ?
Sure But that can and is being done even now... there is great amount of research into paranormal phenomena, reincarnation , noetic sciences - All very scientifically done..
Coke question adi kadu anukunta - but I will let him clarify
Any creed that helps you live a happy , positive , constructive life is a good one aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
meeru devalayam cinema to baga influence ayyinattu vunnaru......  | ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 796 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
deho devaalayo proktho...jeevo sanathana dharmahaaa.... Dehameraa devaalayam..jeevudereraa santhana dharmam... | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 396 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
sorry, i missed your post earlier.....i think fear is same for everybody..i don't think in all the cases because of fear of loosing their personality or body they choose personal god...it's the personal qualities and acts of god as described in ramayana,bharata,bhagavata and other shastras that appeals them..that mood is influenced by positive emotions towards god | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 395 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
After quantum mechanics no significant progress in understanding physical nature for the last i guess 40 years...some of them are working on a unified theory..even if they are successful in unifying all the known forces into a single theory...what will they achieve.....they could just fit these known fundamental forces to a mathematical model..and they themselves say that will be the end of physics as it is known today...so after that according to them there will be nothing more to understand in this physical world..everything is quantified and modeled..will that satisfy the curiosity of man?...may be that could be the starting point for him to look inside himself?... | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6017 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
It does not work with human psychology If you knew for sure something was an unsolvable problem - why would you waste time working on it ?
I do not agree with this I actually firmly believe that it is only a matter of time before science is able to explain everything - how much time anedi telidu but science will get there
As a firm beliver myself , I agree with that.It helps people sleep at night especially when things don't go well or according to plan
I guess it depends on the parents view of what is important But I think we digressed a lot from your original question I don't believe that existence in this world is a result of jealousy of God - because I think you are part of God - like Coke said there is no separate existence to be jealous of anything - there is no identity other than being part of the whole. This is what I think - may be I will find out at the end of this or a few other lives  aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 394 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I think there is connection...when you are humble that means you are conscious to the idea that you(body,mind,intellect) are not everything... service is required to become humble..when you get knowledge through service to elders and guru your mind gets some discipline to follow instructions and you owe that knowledge to guru..at the later stage it will be easy to move beyond that knowledge...another way to look at it is..when we try to understand the world using only reason and logic our curiosity,intellect and ego gets boosted ..just like any other desire intellect and ego demand for more satisfaction through reason and logic.. when reason\logic doesn't satisfactorily answer the why questions ..there is every possibility of severe internal conflict if he doesn't have anchor outside intellect, ego in the form of faith towards Guru or God because intellect\ego won't let you accept limitations of reason\logic that easily..if he somehow overcomes the conflict chances are more that either he will completely reject spirituality or he will reject reason/logic...getting knowledge through service to guru and understanding the limitations of reason\logic at early stage will maintain balance..
well said..that is the point
we can always explore matter knowing fully that it's a never ending story...our modern scientific consciousness (physics) already reached dead end...now we are just playing with technology....what i am saying is man cannot rely only on his reason\intellect alone he should have a broader philosophical orientation with faith in himself and also something external to himself
....but that is not the case everywhere...take for example andhra...people are crazy after math,science....they are not interested in art,music,humanities at all...parents are forcing students who are not interested in maths and science to take these subjects after high school ...courses related to math and science have become status symbols.. they are killing creativity in children...they can't speak one language properly ..education in U.S is lot better in that respect when compared to india...here a child has more choice compared to india... | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6014 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Very well said- na thoughts mee words lo chustunna
I think you are mixing a lot of issues here Humility, sevice have nothing to do with accepting the limitations of reason/logic. You can arrive at that boundary fairly quickly using the scientific process. What humility/faith does is give an explanation to the things yet unexplainable by science so you can be at peace with not knowing everything and not go crazy trying to solve the world's problems However, if people held that boundary rigid by saying this is the final frontier of science and we have the humility to accept that - we would not have an expanding scientific consciousness or pioneers pushing the limits...there would have been no Sushrutha trying to heal/cure forget about later day medicine, there would have been no philosophies trying to explain the origin of the universe.. And to be honest - I have always encouraged my children to ask me and their teachers why - if I cannot answer the why in a convincing manner - I see it as my failure...and there have been times that when they understand the reason - they come up with a different and even better approach than I suggested - it gets their creative and problem-solving juices flowing - and yes,it is driven by ego/arrogance that "I can solve that problem".. Only when you have faith in your ability to do something you will attempt it - anduke sankalpam untene daivabalam annaru peddalu
I have a teenager and my interactions with his peers have been very interesting - they have a way broader outlook and a deeper philosophical insight than the one you just described - so maybe that's why my perception on this is different from yours on this I frankly believe that the current generation of youth will make great strides into these areas because of their scientific temperament, their unlimited access to information and their ability to question without fear WHERE the mind is without fear and the head is held high Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments By narrow domestic walls Where words come out from the depth of truth Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit Where the mind is led forward by thee Into ever-widening thought and action Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake. -Rabindranath Tagore aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Unknown Junior Artist Username: Unknown Post Number: 593 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 76.16.137.45 Rating: N/A |
u r right..but it is somewhat more rapid for last 100 yrs..so we need more controls..rather than demotivating the ceative minds.. Again as an example...with knife we can cut vegitables or our fingers..we cannot throw away knife just because it can cut our fingers while using it...as u said we just need to know its limitations and make sure that it won't be abused for wrong usage..reglious leaders should play good role here to keep the balance
yenti maastaaru..nenu maathram annaana Krishnudu Kasi undalannadani...it was IMO..actually religious people are the ones who keep saying God said this or God intended this..we have to do this etc..they create fear and make money or meet some hidden agenda..I am not generalizing for all but those who create problems like terrorism etc..
manam yekkadikooo vellipothunnaam ee point meedha...all we need to do is question/reason when in doubt...adhi humble ga respectfull gaa adagaali ante..okay not a problem..but again we develop slave mentality..I feel that we should stand up and speak frankly without fear..we cannot call that as arrogance..maybe we should use some other word in place of it..
u r right..its the greed..hatred..educated or unenducated if they have these traits...its only matter of time when they strike...again we need to understand why they are thinking like this...who should be blamed..is it science?? or religon?? or invidual character?? or personality?? I think the answer is combination of many.. Bedar..meelo chaala avesam undhi..keep discussing on topics like this..ee DB lo intellectuals ki kodhava ledhu...naaku general ga DBs anthagaa raase opika ledhu..naa # of posts chuste artham avuthundhi..it is a nice discussion...don't take it otherwise.. | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
ee technology develop avatamu charitraa lo modati sari ippude jaragatledu...man kind passed through these phases many times before...planes were mentioned in ancient texts from india and greece....even before industrial revolution there was technology...it's nothing new for man...but before they never claimed technology is everything...they were well aware of its limitations...
I Agree....nenu eppudu antha god ki vadili veyyali analedu...na previous posts choodandi...duty is more important than anything in life ani cheppanu....krishna arjun ni duty cheyyamanadu..kasi tho or arrogance thocheyyamanala..do it as a service to me annadu
meeru chepindhi nenu chepindhi okkate....good intention tho question cheyyali...mari good intentions etla vastayi..when you are humble..inkoti meeku good intentions vunna...mee mind mi sarigaa train cheyyakapothe it will go against you...split personality laga avutundhi..where mind is addicted to something and heart says something else...so na point entante ippudu mind ni oke angle lo train chestunnaru with too much faith and emphasis only on reason and logic...not only that they are presenting emotions and inclinations of heart as something backward and sentimental..
It is not science and technology but the greed that is using it to capture markets that is creating problems....Even religious fanatacism has its roots in the more than required emphasis on reason/logic....one of the reason for the growth of fundamentalism is people who cannot be satisfied with reason/logic altogether abandoned it and took shelter in dogmas and certainities...that explains why the master minds behind terrorist attacks are highly educated especially in science...science as it is propagated today has also that tinge of fundamentalistic tendency | ||
| Unknown Junior Artist Username: Unknown Post Number: 590 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 76.16.137.45 Rating: N/A |
  | ||
| Lionswalkalone Side Hero Username: Lionswalkalone Post Number: 6121 Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 204.124.181.143 Rating: N/A |
| ||
| Unknown Junior Artist Username: Unknown Post Number: 589 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 76.16.137.45 Rating: N/A |
bedar...meeru cheppalanukunna dantlo clarity kante confusion yekkuvundhi... IMO..for any kind of progress/invention..there will be good and bad...we and our rulers should promote good and avoid/control bad effect of it... example...cars, buses, trains, aeroplanes valla roju chaala accidednts avuthunnai..so ippudu ivanni ban cheyyandani propose/strike cheste yelaa untundhi..is it a good idea??? nuclear energy valla..radiation and other ills effects untaay..but what about the benefits... gita gita antunnaaru kadha...gita lo Krishna Arjun ki yem cheppad..nuvvu narikey kauravulani migathaadhi nen chusukanta annaada ledha..asalaaa unpadesamamantha krishna arjun ki yendhukichaadu..Arjun na valla kaadhu morro..nenu cheyyalenu anabatle kadhaa.. manava dharmam maanavudu cheyyaali...God/creator gave all the resources that spices need on earth..we have to use them and live until we are done here..antha god ye chuskuntaad ante inka manam raathi yugam lone undevallam... inka questioning antaara..doesn't matter whether it is humble or not..as long as there is a point and its intention is good...IMO for anything we need KASI to achieve it.. so IMO bottom line is..we need to progress and at the same time put controls to avoid/stop any potential wrong usage of invensions...we need to think/reason and at the same time it should be rational and with good intension..we have to do cost benefit analysis and move on its not science or technology or progress or the other causing problems in this modern world..its the religions, people behind it and the hatred they are planting in innocent minds or in small kids in some countries is the problem..and these modern tools they go now making the job easy..modern world lo technolgy ayina..relion ayinaa BAD ne yekkuva ga promote chestunnaru..chaala yekkuvagaa vaagaananukuntaa.. thread chusi...vaddule anukunnaa..kaani paaduchethulu oorukovu..antha technology mahima | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: |
according to our age old belief humility is required to acquire true knowledge and have the capacity to handle it properly..questioning is also part of that process...my point is before questioning the student should be trained in humility and service..in that way his questions are not based on ego and his mind will be better trained to accept the limitations of reason and logic.. this is mentioned in gita(pari prashnena sevayah)..which means ask guru questions while doing humble service to him...after education he can explore using his knowledge but always keeping in mind the limitation...that is the reason why all pursuits in our culture material\intellectual\spiritual end with dedicating them to god..the message behind that dedication is the source and inspiration behind these accomplishments is you (not our body,mind or intellect) | ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 739 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
Ayyooo...nenippudemannani rao garu  | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1819 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
not just Advani - Hon'ble Supreme Court of India, Dr. Hegdewar, Savarkar, Gandhi, Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyay, Dr. Syama Prasad Mookherjee, Aurobindo, Vivekananda and last but not the least Vedas, Upanishads and other scriptures testify the same. Conclusion, truth is truth, even if you do not recognize it. True face of Secularism - 4 Sept 2009. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoopSdiqipo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40a4m3REhM | ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 738 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
Its a way of life...its not a religion ani advani gaaru selavicharu | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1816 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
kaadu .. Hindutva ardam avvali ..
kiki .. Swami Veerendranath garu selavisthe .. inka emi vaadinchaali .. intaki Veerendranath gariki aayana meeda aayanaki nammakam baaga unda?
Well, call it arrogance/confidence. I do not believe a person can control his destiny. True face of Secularism - 4 Sept 2009. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoopSdiqipo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40a4m3REhM | ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 732 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
Sare Kamal and vjavasi postlu ardham kaavalante nuvvu RSS bavajaalam vunna pusthakaalu...eedio lu soodali... Anand gaari post lu ardham kaavaliante neeku 40 years age raavali | ||
| All_mix Side Hero Username: All_mix Post Number: 5029 Registered: 02-2009 Posted From: 122.169.148.176 Rating: N/A |
 adi joke kaadu...nijamgane eppatikaina ardham cheskovali ani undi | ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 730 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
| ||
| Gandhiguevara Junior Artist Username: Gandhiguevara Post Number: 729 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 98.249.223.223 Rating: N/A |
Tana meeda tanaki nammakam vunnavadiki devudi meeda nammakam avasaram ledu... Yandamuri veerendhranath's anando brahma--hero tata gaaru septhaaru | ||
| All_mix Side Hero Username: All_mix Post Number: 5026 Registered: 02-2009 Posted From: 122.169.148.176 Rating: N/A |
hopefully eenatikaina mee mugguri post lu naaku ardham avutayi  | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6013 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Vjavasi/kamal, You are getting hung up on semantics but not getting the gist of what I said On one end you are supporting a time-tested path ,a scientific approach to spiritual progress and on the other you are criticising the scientific temperament as the root of all problems A complete surrender to god would mean you let god take care of your spotitusl progress. The very fact that you believe you can drive that progress is egoistic to my mind I called it arrogance you may call it confidence aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
Do you mean to say that all qualities(good and bad) are born out of ego...so there is no difference between them? .....so why in shastras satva guna is preferred than rajo and tamo guna...and why satva guna is considered as launch pad for spiritual progress...my point in previous posts is our civilizational values and education should lead us from whereever we are to the next better stage (tamo guna-->Rajo guna-->Satva guna-->truth) | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1812 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
identandi .. oka graph lo left (negative) ki veltunnama? right (positive) ki move avutunnama - should we not mind? To me the direction of travel is most crucial ..
again this is wrong .. I do not subscribe to this andi .. show me atleast one man on earth who is sure about his destiny, where every day of his life is in his control .. no .. I have not come across one such person .. in any case .. even those do not believe in god also say that there is something called "luck" which is unpredictable and which cannot be quantified in a numerical .. that is what it is .. no body on the face of earth is the 100% pilot of his/her life. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1811 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
I am surprised meeru arrogance ni confidence/self-esteem lanti positive attribtes tho polustunnaru ante andi .. arrogance is lack of humility, humbleness ani chadivina gurtu .. arrogance ki sanskrit/hindi/telugu word cheppandi .. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6012 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
You did not get my point at all It is not the question of what kind of progress It is the fact that you believe yourself capable of changing anything at all instead of relying 100% on the will of God It takes arrogance to believe that you have free will and are in control of your destiny in even the smallest form If you did not have that arrogance you would not even be seeking spiritual progress Arrogance/confidence/ego/self-esteem are all different flavors of the same quality - belief in ourself aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1810 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
nijame .. manaki anniti kante balam .. nijamaina Dharmam eppatiki odipodu .. so manaki otami ledu antimam ga .. vayasulo pedda vaaru ani aaservadinchamannanu Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
manalni dharmam aseervadhinchali tammudu...we are in the battle for dharma(Dharmo rakshathi rakshitaha) | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1809 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
mahanubhaavulu .. aasirvadinchandi annai .. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 381 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
early thirties lo vunna tammudu....expression emundhi tammudu bavamu pradhanam anukunte kavalasina words ave vastayi.. | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1807 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
annai .. if u dont mind .. nee age entha? ikkada cheppalani lekapothe mail lo cheppandi .. somehow .. we both think alike in so many issues .. sometimes .. mee posts chaduvutonte .. nene raasana ane feeling vastondi .. but most of the time .. I am not able to express as well as you do .. so I do not touch spirituality .. to me I cannot express everything I think .. you are awesome .. pleasure to interact with you .. ! Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Sachin Moderator Username: Sachin Post Number: 11604 Registered: 04-2008 Rating: |
 What the F*** so great about ones cast or religion...idiots.. be humans first..... | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1806 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
btw .. in my book .. arrogance is a negative trait .. it is a characteristic, where respect is absent or suppressed. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1805 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
LOL .. nenu Why dont you define progress ani type chesi malli naakenduku le ani vadilesa .. exactly .. we have myopic standards of measuring progress .. we do not consider the number of cancers due to industrialization, but love to consider chemotherapy as a progress  we do not consider AK-47 a bane, but are ready to embrace a AK-47 protecting vest as a boon .. how hypocritical are we .. we do not consider atomic bombs and the radiations as a bane, but are happy about 10% efficient missile shields and radiation protecting bunkers .. manam mamoolu pichollam kaadu .. idi mindless rat race .. shame ! (idi andari gurinchi antunna) Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 379 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
we are going nowhere with this kind of progress...this progress is born and fueled by greedy egoistic mind..it's driven by markets....we have to take our work seriously..i would say work as duty is more important than anything in life ... jamshedji tata used to say...while working think everything is dependent on you..where as while praying think everything is dependent on god..
we can be confident without being arrogant....there is difference...a person is more mature and content with what he has if he is not arrogant...i am not saying we should not go after material pursuits....everything should be within limits....Infact i would say people in the past were more happy,better skilled and content with what they had than modern man...even they enjoyed material pleasures better than modern man..I am not saying we should live in past..we should think about what is more appropriate for humanity in future.. | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1800 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
and there is nothing wrong at all with it. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6011 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Will do - ippudu kudaradu transcript unte post cheyyandi aa thread lo - easier to readaa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Telugubabu Junior Artist Username: Telugubabu Post Number: 308 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 24.99.205.17 Rating: N/A |
I think about 80 to 90% of religious people are actually god fearing people. | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12800 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 71.206.101.169 Rating: N/A |
Anand garu please listen to Swami Aksharananda's speech I posted in the other thread 15 minute speech Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12797 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 71.206.101.169 Rating: N/A |
My pleasure akkai  Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6010 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Mee questions mee thinking chustunte chala happy ga undi God bless you aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12792 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 71.206.101.169 Rating: N/A |
How much does fear play a role in accepting a personal god ? . Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6008 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
I actually do not agree with that I think a scientific temper is what makes progress possible. If everyone accepted everything as the will of God - why would anyone have the drive to make things better ? It takes arrogance to believe you can change your life - it takes that scientific temper to pick and choose what works for you and what does not and make life better and more efficient... And it takes that very arrogance to believe that we have the ability to make spiritual progress as well What makes us think that we know a scientific , time-tested path to reach God Why don't we leave that to God's will too ? Are you seeing the oxymoron there ? We draw a line in the sand - we assume control where we can and when things ae beyond our control we attribute it to God's will aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1795 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
nuvvu keka annai .. you hit the nail .. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Kamal Comedian Username: Kamal Post Number: 1794 Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 71.239.184.202 Rating: N/A |
well said .. Ishaa Vaasyamidam sarvam, yatkincha jagatyaam jagat | Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaah maa gridhah kasyaswiddhanam || | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 378 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
well summarized... our modern reasoning mind is scared of that, I would say that giving up(if it is real) could actually open new understanding of god and our relation with him....the modern so called scientific temper makes people to question egoistically as if they have a right to get answers for everything...the current trend in the society is to impart children with this kind of arrogant questioning without humility in the name of scientific temper...so the young minds are addicted to that arrogance and because of lack of humility their minds are not open to other alternative channels of getting knowledge where as in gita it is said we can get knowledge by finding a guru and humbly questioning after satisfying him through service, in that way we become more humble with our knowledge.......even many founders of modern science were very humble and accepted their limitations.. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6006 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Well said - and bhakti does require you to completely and unquestioningly surrender to God - with the idea that you are incapable of understanding the workings of God and everything must happen for a reason He knows best To a lesser extent , its the same with accepting someone as a "spiritual guru" and submitting/surrendering to them unconditionally requires a leap into blind faith in the Guru . It does not work for someone who is always asking why
I like the first part till managing the ego . But I have a different take on the second half - read someone somewhere who said the ego needs to go to 0 or infinity ...become nothing or everything.. 0 being the complete selfnegation and infinity being getting ego robust enough to be one with the cosmic soul/ego... In either case all the other's egos become immaterial aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6005 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
Agree that it is one way .. and agree the part about experiences being misleading - which is why a healthy amount of skepticism is very critical validating experiences with others is important ... As to Guru - yeas a good guru can be a great facilitator - but I do not believe it is mandatory to have "a" guru ... everyone who has something to teach us can perform the role for that instant I have learnt from so many people that I have lost count - because a subset of something they say resonates with my thought process and the rest may not aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6004 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
yeah - when I was thinking of the options of how they came to be in my mind - the first was my own imagination, then the traditional purvajanma sukrutam " memories for a previous life", then I thought why does it have to be pre-existing - maybe I just picked up someone else's thought so yes what you quoted UG as saying sounds totally plausible to me aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 245 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 123.237.216.44 Rating: N/A |
good one . I used to think this way. you raked it up now. ego can bring anything(by virtue of reason) to the rescue of itself....belittling the greatness of anything in its vicinity. coming to the reason, does anything make sense outside of reason/thought( once the first reason or unreasoned reason is just accepted )? when there is no reason, thought it does not matter weather anything exists or not. I have been rehashing the same,may be in different words,for long . Anand Garu, I read your posts in previous threads where in you kind of talked about the experiences in dreams that you never came across really or something like that and you kind of attributed them to the experience of others that might be induced in you..... could not post in that thread as i was a little busy...... just thought of sharing with u what UG blabbered about on this... he kind of said like this ...... there is no new thought...there in thought of your own.....all of us operate in thought sphere ..all thoughts come from outside..brain is an antenna and not the creator of thoughts..... he blabbers like this i found it difficult appreciating it that time. does it make sense to you? Ok. we have been talking of spirituality/god/religion/enlightenment or stuff like this and rehashing the same.... as for the enlightenment....i would try to describe 3 states ( may not be able to do it clearly though)...which level would the enlightenment/realization be? 1) raw consciousness/animal consciousness/mechanistic consciousness: No higher level cognition. the ego/self is just enough to separate itself from the environment and survive/propagate. driven by sophisticated physical mechanism only. 2) consciousness with wisdom or higher level cognition and with ego that is not much self conscious: this state may be similar to that of 1. but there is wisdom in this state. may be prudent enough to protect it's life from potential perils if any. 3) consciousness with wisdom and ego management abilities: all the raga dvesha's of ego are present but the ego knows how to manage them...how to deal with others' egos to the benefit of itself.....with internal harmony. | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 372 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
These "Why" questions have no convincing answer either in modern sciences or in ancient texts..after struggling hard with these "why" questions we may altogether give up these questions, and follow a path that satisfies our heart... | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 371 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I never suggested our faith should be blind...for some people in the past and even today that faith is simple and natural backed by a philosophical framework....our outlook today is very complex and vastly influenced by modern knowledge with its high emphasis on analysis and reason...it may look as blind faith for our reason addidcted minds..so our minds cannot digest treating god as person today, but yet our heart (atleast for me)is not satisfied with impersonal descriptions..so there is conflict between mind and heart...All i am saying is understanding limitations of reason could help us to overcome the conflict if at all it is present.... | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12785 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 71.206.101.169 Rating: N/A |
The path you are suggesting requires a leap in to blind faith We can stick to that path only if we stop asking "why" questions Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 370 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I think following a time tested path is important, we can always exercise our freedom within the framework of that path...i think that is the reason why guru is important in our spiritual traditions....experiences can be trick of maya(even bliss)...we can always enquire about our experiences with guru, shastras or with other seekers | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 6002 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
I would not say it is difficult-its a conscious choice and it becomes second nature after a point You literally see God everywhere and in everyone, waking and sleeping - which is why you lose the ability to get mad/angry at anyone, irrespective of their behavior - even if you do , it takes a very little time to get back to the even keel
Everyone has a different set of steps they have to pass thru - but if you take the bhakti aspect - yeah I guess you captured it pretty well.. But more that the conscious spiritual pursuit following a prescribed path , I think it is life experiences and the choices we make in response to them that makes realization happen I am not talking about the yogic siddhis here - but finding that inner bliss aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 365 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I Agree..i personally believe blind belief, relying on reason, belief after realising the limitations of reason are different phases in spiritual growth..every seeker has to pass through these phases.. the last phase leads to maturity in faith towards god | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 364 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
It's pleasure discussing with you....it helped me to gather my philosophical moorings...I will definitely look forward for more such discussions | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 363 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
o.k, did reason tell how this universe works?
that tylenol is based on a observed pattern by some xyz..i never said imagination is everything...it is experience and imagination together..this imagination is also based on accumalated experience...if this is the knowledge we are talking about..what is so special in it | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1021 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: |
All I am saying is that don't underestimate the power of reason. I myself am a believer of god (impersonal though), but the concepts of religion must satisfy reason for any religion to survive. Blind beliefs are the causes of several perils in this society. However, I am ready to accept that a scientific formula would never prove the existence of god. I must say that I liked your steady temperament in discussing these kind of topics. Some DBers of this forum discuss these topics to win the arguments to show their superiority of knowledge. You along with coconada seem to be very comfortable for me to discuss these kind of topics. I hope you will maintain the same tone and temperament in this DB. I look forward to more such. Got to go now, tired... All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1020 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Should there be a reason for why the universe works? Reason tells how this universe works and not why. really? when you get a headache you take tylenol and the headache is gone, is that also an imagination? or is it the knowledge acquired by science? All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
what is the reason for the working of this universe? Did any scientist found it..or will they find it in future..which realm of reason explains this universe?
we use reason to play with our world view which is based on our experience..in the process we identify some patterns and we think we got knowledge ..even maths is nothing but a language that quantitatively expresses the experience and imagination of man..imagination is also limited by our experience and world view..we can't think beyond our experience...can we think about 4-dimensional space? | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1019 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Well now that's the standoff isn't it. If this whole infinite universe works under realm of reason, does god exists separately out of this universe to defy logic? No, we use reason to understand and increase our knowledge of this world. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
It's not the duty of god to satisfy reason..it's just a tool..we don't live on reason..we use reason according to our convenience to satisfy our world view...our world view is not perfect and it is limited... | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1017 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Yes it can be, but if I use a reason that is not influenced by ego and still god doesn't satisfy those requirements, should I still believe him? All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 358 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
reason is not a negative trait by itself but it can be used negatively by ego...reason by itself will create more need for reason..fully knowing its limitations reason can be used..that is the reason why in our culture all pursuits material,intellectual,spiritual (dance,music,..) were finally dedicated to god ...logic is product of our knowledge,ego and world view which is limited and if it doesn't want to be satisfied it won't be satisfied ..god won't interfere he has given us free will..(It's impossible to understand my maya...but if one surrenders to me then it is possible.. bhagvat gita) | ||
| Telugubabu Junior Artist Username: Telugubabu Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 24.99.205.17 Rating: N/A |
andaru GOD ki konchem rest ivandi.. GOD one week thanksgiving vacation ki vellaru. | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1016 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Why do you think reason is a negative trait? If a god can not satisfy logic, is that god worth worshiping? All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 357 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
ego will not bother them if they do it occasionally..but if the ego's interests are neglected..it will strike with vengence it will bring reason logic to its rescue..If they really accept his authority then i believe he will definitely pull them towards him..(those who approach me, i will protect what they have and i will carry what they lack..Bhagvat gita) | ||
| Basky_indya Hero Username: Basky_indya Post Number: 17705 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 208.11.223.20 Rating: N/A |
If one neglects parents then worshipping 1000 gods is of no use. If one can first look after parents nicely, god will also defn help him . let me be practical for some time being..here Gigantic Techno fuctional Mega Blockbuster Magnum Opus BOMMA | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1015 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Whatever might be the level of their devotion, they are still accepting the supreme authority of the god, meaning that their ego has no problem in approaching him/her. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
devotion can be at different levels, it's easy to pray to god once in a while with different motivations....but it is difficult to think about him, getting attached to him, and be in a mood of surrender in all times and places | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1014 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 68.90.44.243 Rating: N/A |
Adenti, most of the religious people in the world are devotional to a personal god ee kada. In fact impersonal faith ni believe chese vaare thakkuva. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Basky_indya Hero Username: Basky_indya Post Number: 17699 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 208.11.223.20 Rating: |
kiki Gigantic Techno fuctional Mega Blockbuster Magnum Opus BOMMA | ||
| Lionswalkalone Side Hero Username: Lionswalkalone Post Number: 6094 Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 204.124.181.143 Rating: N/A |
 | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 353 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
clarity kosame kadandi mee lanti vallatho discuss chesedhi...ee discussion lo mee opinions pettandi | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 352 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
That's is the point..that unconditional attraction towards god beyond reason and logic is of very high order and culmination of all spiritual experiences...but unfortunately that attraction is very rare among seekers..so the ego within them will look for alternatives | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 5998 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 67.10.134.234 Rating: N/A |
have to strike a balance so opted to get a lifetime pass on the commuter train between spiritual and material
I totally agree with that Howvere, discussion helps people clarify their thoughts - helping them see perspectives they have not thought of before .. it definitely helped me to discuss these topics with Nisarga, IBV, Vivek,MS et al
Keep at it... Confuse avutunte clarify chesukuntu undandi - like they say unless the milk is churned you do not get to the butter, so it is that unless your mind is churned you will not find what you are looking for I see the samudra manthan as an allegory for the churning of the mind - the devas the positive thought forces, the asuras the negative The nadis and spine being the meru, the kundalini energy the Vasuki that churns The churning throws up good and bad things - we need to be able to handle both before we reach a stable bliss state Ivala oka quote chusanu-liked it a lot : "I love to go into my own mind and am not afraid to go where I have never been before" aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1013 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.106.234 Rating: N/A |
Well it depends on the god you are looking in to, right? I mean some people are more attracted to shiva than krishna because shiva might possess qualities that appeal to them and make more sense. That initial attraction in due course evolves in to devotion. If such attraction is there, why would it be so difficult to approach him as god? Only when certain features or acts of a god doesn't make sense, problems come. But some people might reject the whole concept of the existence of a personal god because that concept itself doesn't explain some questions. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 351 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
i am not saying any body or every body is god...I am saying it's very difficult to approach god as a person..our ego in the form of logic and reason strongly resists that approach...where as some people who were very simple in life had spontaneous attachment,attraction and love towards god without going through severe spiritual practices, logic or reason..most of them worshipped god in personal form | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1012 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38 Rating: N/A |
If a person comes to you and says that I am god, what would be your reaction? You think he is insane. You have seen humans all along your life and know that no one is perfect. On the contrary, if a guy tells you that this universe is god, you wouldn't trash him immediately. Which argument makes more sense, relatively? I think that rejection of idea of personal god is more to do with its inability to answer fundamental questions than ego. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
I am not saying all...even when we meditate this reason and logic will interfere..our logic and reason doesn't always support our beliefs ..infact they question our beliefs when it comes to spiritual matters..but we still believe in our beliefs..i feel there is a strong tendency inside us that resists accepting other person as superior, if that person is interfering with our ego, we fight back..and our ego feels comfortable with a definition of god or truth that is not personal..like,universe,power,energy...even krishna showed his universal form inorder to convince arjuna...i mean to say we can't take him as a simple personality..according to biographies of some devotees, they played with god, they shared food with god and their only relationship with god is love and attachment | ||
| Ishan Comedian Username: Ishan Post Number: 1009 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 128.249.107.38 Rating: N/A |
Its my belief that religion must never defy logic. When you believe in a principle, you meditate upon it, test it and form your opinion based on your interpretations. Any kind of belief which defies reasoning is a superstition. I don't agree that all believers of impersonal path have ego problems with personal god. Dualism doesn't make sense to some people. All generalizations have exceptions, including this one | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 339 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I agree..action speak better than words..i am talking about people like prahlada,narada,annamayya,pothana,thyagaraja who practiced personal devotion towards god | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 338 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
some sources say we were enjoying with god...we were one with god and also different from god depending on our mood and enjoyment if that is an ideal state, why did we feel jealous? /// our real identity has free will, so we are free to be jealous in spiritual world also
nenu iskcon discourses lo vinnanu | ||
| Maverick Hero Username: Maverick Post Number: 11047 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 192.146.101.24 Rating: N/A |
People still say god is everything and can still carry ego.. 10k post : why do u want to do pmp? | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 336 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I Agree..everyone will have their own idea of life...in bhagavtgita there is one shlokam in which krishna says...pundits will come together and discuss about me to get divine pleasure..my intention is same | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12758 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 136.181.195.4 Rating: N/A |
before this birth, what were we doing? did we have an identity independent of god? if that is an ideal state, why did we feel jealous? asalu... ee discourse evaru ichaaru meeku? Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 335 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
material mood lo vunnaru annamata....wrong time to initiate this thread  | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
our birth is because of our deviation from real identity....we can have two identities one our real spiritual identity (real ego) and false material identity(false ego). this false ego has its roots in real ego and all our material emotions have their roots in real ego through our false ego...I mean to say our real identity is not without emotions | ||
| Parthasaradhi Junior Artist Username: Parthasaradhi Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 68.36.127.150 Rating: |
If you are serious into this matter listen to what i say. Know for sure that there cannot be any single spiritual philosophy or path that can answer all your answers before you get there. It is impossible. The purpose of these philosophies is to make you look within. That's all. They show you the road and it is up to you whether you follow that road or find your own way It is the matter of how close they can get you to the reality. If you read too much you will only get questions but not answers. There is no single correct path. Moreover, this db is such a dangerous place for spirituality that there are people who are interested in knowledge but not in wisdom. They are hopelessly confused. Bookworm rarely get satisfied in spiritual world. Even if someone answers your question to your content, that answer may not be correct to me. so it just goes on... To answer your question, jealousy could be one good reason. Ignorance is the root cause I guess. In other words, forgetfulness. There is lot more I can write but not interested. rest nee spirituality in this db. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 5996 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.24.150 Rating: N/A |
Holiday mood andi So only seeking the material pleasures of tinatam, tiragatam and enjoying the gift of life and time with family for the holidays aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Cocanada Hero Username: Cocanada Post Number: 12754 Registered: 01-2008 Posted From: 136.181.195.4 Rating: N/A |
Before first life we had jealousy towards god?? How can we have an identity with out even having birth? I dont buy it When everyone says we should destroy ego, it means we should destroy the feeling of "I" Ego has multiple meanings. Try try try .... you will succeed | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 333 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
andaru monnati thread tho alasi poyinatunnaru....Anand_n meeru respond avvandi..appudu DBers lo kadalika vastundhi | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 192.127.94.7 Rating: N/A |
nenu single veyyala....emunthi time pass kaka itla discussions | ||
| Bunty717 Side Hero Username: Bunty717 Post Number: 3413 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 161.185.151.155 Rating: N/A |
mee iddari lo naku single evaru veseru..kiki | ||
| Bunty717 Side Hero Username: Bunty717 Post Number: 3412 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 161.185.151.155 Rating: |
malli start..chuss.. | ||
| Der_schuler Side Hero Username: Der_schuler Post Number: 2633 Registered: 01-2009 Posted From: 198.135.110.2 Rating: N/A |
no opinions....sarvam midhya..but ee thread oka 100+ kodutundhi.. | ||
| Vjavasi Junior Artist Username: Vjavasi Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 75.131.199.90 Rating: N/A |
I heard in some discourse that our first life in this material world is the result of our jealousy towards god..from there on karma in that life is seed for next life..and it goes on until our jealousy towards god turns into divine love towards god(not love as a mundane emotion).. In my opinion seeking god as a person and getting attached to him by surrendering to him gives that final death blow to the false ego which is nothing but manifestation of that jealousy..our ego resists that personal manifestation of god..it creates doubt and logic to justify its position, if at all you insists on seeking god it will work on a compromise and request you to go on impersonal path. Please share your opinions on this |
