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Vjavasi
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Post Number: 10105
Registered: 11-2009
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:25 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://centreright.in/2011/11/fdi-in-retail-destroying-livel ihoods/#.UFi8PLJNyrg


FDI in retail - destroying livelihoods
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Indiarocks
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Post Number: 11339
Registered: 09-2008
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:21 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:


NRHM teesesi US health system ni follow avvala?
What is JP doing for Kukatpally?
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Indiarocks
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Post Number: 11338
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:17 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Vjavasi:

for capital inflows to reduce trade deficit selling the country's trade, resources and its economic independence is foolishness and treachery




I guess this foolishness started in the 90's. We should take our economy back to the pre-90's.
What is JP doing for Kukatpally?
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Vjavasi
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:12 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the initiator lists valid points....but his conclusions are misleading........ for capital inflows to reduce trade deficit selling the country's trade, resources and its economic independence is foolishness and treachery
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Indiarocks
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:03 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Filmbuff:

I don't think you understand the international strategic underpinnings of many decisions that you call just "business". Wherever we can, we should try to leverage business decisions to drive larger geo-political goals. Just learn from China. If you feel that business decisions are just that - "business", i suggest you pick up an edition of Foreign Affairs or Foreign Policy.




I did not differ with what you said. We try to get what we want, and they will try to get what they want - and this includes geo-political goals. But nobody is doing a favor to anybody, right?

I was addressing those ppl who say that opening FDI is equivalent to writing off the Indian market to Walmart.
What is JP doing for Kukatpally?
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Filmbuff
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Post Number: 642
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:54 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Indiarocks:




I don't think you understand the international strategic underpinnings of many decisions that you call just "business". Wherever we can, we should try to leverage business decisions to drive larger geo-political goals. Just learn from China. If you feel that business decisions are just that - "business", i suggest you pick up an edition of Foreign Affairs or Foreign Policy.
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Indiarocks
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:45 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is utter nonsense to think that either party, US or India are doing a favor to the other party, with FDI.

We are doing business, that all. Nobody is writing off anything to Walmart or somebody else. We are only allowing them to compete.
What is JP doing for Kukatpally?
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Gandhiguevara
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Post Number: 33658
Registered: 10-2009
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:45 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Indiarocks:


hey manidharam ippudu okate party thelsaa
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Indiarocks
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:41 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Filmbuff:

My issue however is that we always do these on the backfoot. If we were on a stronger wicket, we could have done FDI on our terms. We ideally should have put a condition on US, UK, France etc. that unless they open their economies to our workers we will not open up sectors to them. Labour is one of the two main factors of production apart from capital. Developed countries always want to open up capital so that they can invest. In the same vein, labour should also be allowed to move freely. If our CAD was not so bad and we were not desperate, we could dictated terms to the developed nations so that not just software workers, but even cooks, barbers, painters, farmers etc can go and work in other countries. We have to live with ignominous visa and emigration rules of others.




I don't think we are in a position to dictate this. Indians already get the majority of US visas, and many UK visas so where is our leverage point?

Talking about populist schemes, none of the parties will agree to getting away from them. Take the diesel price deregulation itself for an example. How it is being politicized.
What is JP doing for Kukatpally?
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Filmbuff
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:34 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Jawmetri:




Currently we are doing out of necessity, but imagine if we had opened up in 2006 before all this deficit ballooning happened. We could have really done a favour to the developed countries. Where is the development in US and Europe now, they have zero interest rates for the past 4 years with minimal growth or reduction in employment. We have to negotiate as equals - we are doing them a favour by giving them a lifeline to improve their growth prospects. China does a lot of selective approvals to countries and firms in their good books.

But total balance sheet lo hole paddaka, we have no bargaining power. BJP, Congress, TDP, lo okka modadaina lesi we will put an end to these nonsensical deficits ani voice leputhara, never. And not just fuel prices, what about all these SEZ tax breaks and STPI tax breaks. Why doesn't KV Kamath or Mohandas Pai go on TV and say that Infosys does not need tax breaks or SEZ benefits or land at bargain rates. Prodduna lesthe TV lo deficits thaggali ani vagutha vuntaru, but when it comes to their own industry, they want to get all the breaks.

What we need in this country is a secular, liberal party. Even Ram Guha keeps saying that in his articles, the closest we had was Rajaji's Swaraj party. That is the only solution i can think of.
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Tilak
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Post Number: 8566
Registered: 02-2012
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:33 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Jawmetri:

whatever happened to Stephen Covey's "Win-Win" Mantra.


Oh yeah .. lets see who wins .. and how they win :D
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Jawmetri
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Post Number: 1467
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:26 pm:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:


If the latter was true, we would not have seen the extra-ordinary pressure Obama and Hillary and other top American officials applied on Indian politicians.




whatever happened to Stephen Covey's "Win-Win" Mantra.
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:49 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Jawmetri:

we are opening as a necessity and not doing them a favor.



If the latter was true, we would not have seen the extra-ordinary pressure Obama and Hillary and other top American officials applied on Indian politicians.
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Jawmetri
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:43 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

we are opening as a necessity and not doing them a favor. They can say that they have liberal foreign direct investment policies. Why is free labor movement required when the foreign capital will come with expertise too .Unless we educate, research and innovate, I dont see trade deficits decreasing.
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Sanman
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:26 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good post initiator. one of the best i read in this DB
your google is as good as mine
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Rajusk
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:23 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:


hopefully BJP is not going to announce something like this before elections..
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:17 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Rajusk:

kaani Congress volla NREGA scheme matram hit..for getting them back to power


who will pay? ignorant citizens will ..

Between 2006-2011 March .. NREGA ki $29 billion (*50 INR) (which is 146500 crores) karchupettindi UPA govt ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MNREGA
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:08 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Python:

aka ekaram ammi .. sommu cheskuni ... vyavasayam seskuntar levo .. migitha half acre lo .. reality loki raa .. there are no peda raithulu with lands .. only land lords .. period .. maree seekakulam adavi gudem loki ethukelthe i cant help it yaa



bokka .. this argument is a not factful .. ammukuni sommu chesukovadam enti? adi kuda 1-2 acres unte? and 80% of the lands are valued below 5 lakhs/acre .. 95% of the farmers have less than 2 acres of land .. 90% of the farmers skillset is only agriculture .. ivi drustilo pettukuni matladaali ..

There are poor farmers .. lot of them .. but the proposed benefits are not reaching them anyways .. so think of some other way to help them out ..
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Rajusk
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:04 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:


vomerica vodu iraq meeda Edo vasthundi ani karsu pettindu..vaadiki em raaledu..kaani Congress volla NREGA scheme matram hit..for getting them back to power
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Python
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:03 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:

even if 1 acre costs some 25 lakhs .. that does not mean .. he is not a poor farmer .. till he realizes the money in cash ..




aka ekaram ammi .. sommu cheskuni ... vyavasayam seskuntar levo .. migitha half acre lo .. reality loki raa .. there are no peda raithulu with lands .. only land lords .. period .. maree seekakulam adavi gudem loki ethukelthe i cant help it yaa
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend
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Ipc302
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:02 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Python:

acre 1cr undhi ekkada choosina ..




ekkada babu aa 1 cr undhi...uttrandhra side lo villages lo 3-4 lakshalu kooda ledhu..ee 1 koti /acre anevi ye highways, roadla pakkana unte vasthayi emo...adhi kooda cities ki daggarlo..mid level cities like vijayanagaram or towns ki daaggarlo pollallo ayithe antha ledhu....
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Python
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:02 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Rajusk:

andarki UID istaanu anna peddayana jump jilani aa?




infy vollu aadhar ke chetul ettesaru .. aadhar card is not mandatory now.. prj in cold storage .. ani vinnanu .. nijamena??
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend
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Tilak
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Post Number: 8548
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:01 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Rajusk:

andarki UID istaanu anna peddayana jump jilani aa?


They are working on it .. 2000 crores karchu pettesaaru already .. jilaani ki subhaani (they are not from bangladesh) ki cards printing!
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:00 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Python:

acre 1cr undhi ekkada choosina .. who is pedha raithu ...



ala emi ledu .. chaala (80%) polalu .. ippatiki kuda acre 5 lakhs ki takkuve palukutayi rural areas lo .. except for the ones on highways .. and second .. even if 1 acre costs some 25 lakhs .. that does not mean .. he is not a poor farmer .. till he realizes the money in cash ..
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Rajusk
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 07:57 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Python:


andarki UID istaanu anna peddayana jump jilani aa?

Aa project gurinchi sound ledu..
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Python
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 07:51 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Rajusk:

more than 50% of the records are fake..




peda raithuki subsidy .. loan maafi ... no interest loans ... free vithanalu, free urea .. enni ichina no prb .. kani how do u determine peda raithu .. even govt does not want to track properly ...

eeyalrepu .. acre 1cr undhi ekkada choosina .. who is pedha raithu ... only land lords and working in his fields are peda raithulu .. they dont have any records, a/cs or door nos also ...
Properly trained, a man can be a dog's best friend
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Rajusk
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 07:49 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tilak:



Filmbuff:


Excellent points brothers...ee thokkalo free money schemes are a huge drain o on the economy..more so because...more than 50% of the records are fake..
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:11 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Filmbuff:

If we were on a stronger wicket, we could have done FDI on our terms. We ideally should have put a condition on US, UK, France etc. that unless they open their economies to our workers we will not open up sectors to them. Labour is one of the two main factors of production apart from capital. Developed countries always want to open up capital so that they can invest. In the same vein, labour should also be allowed to move freely. If our CAD was not so bad and we were not desperate, we could dictated terms to the developed nations so that not just software workers, but even cooks, barbers, painters, farmers etc can go and work in other countries.




Kudos .. you nailed this .. we should have negotiated some good terms in favor of India/Indians, if we have to open up our retail market for foreign MNCs ..

Filmbuff:


Another problem i have is that fuel prices are always held out as the only reason for deficits. Take disastrous policies like free power and fee reimbursement. Fee reimbursement costs close to $1 Bn a year in AP. Once you reduce this nonsense, price assets like telecom/coal/ ore etc at market rates, balance sheets will automatically recover and we can command the developed countries at our will like how China does right now.



Agree with this .. we need to cut down on all kinds of senseless populism .. irrespective of where it comes from ..

so, my argument is -
1) since we are wasting money on govt spending like NREGA or NRHM (in both schemes, almost 70% money is alleged to be not reaching the beneficiaries) .. we should stop those immediately and plug leaks
2) Govt's revenue is lost out to private corporates in the form of cheap telecom spectrum or no license fee coalblocks .. running into lakhs of crores - fix corrupt govt models ..
3) cut down on subsidies like diesel, petrol etc .. make the system fair .. huge subsidies and huge taxes on petro products is only confusing ppl with half truths ..
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Tilak
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:58 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Filmbuff:

We have been running a huge current account deficit (CAD) and fiscal deficits. When an economy runs a huge CAD, it can balance these through capital account inflows only. That is why opening up for FDI is crucial - because we need the money, there is no other way. Otherwise we will have even higher inflation, high interest rates, reduced growth etc etc.



Good identification of the problem - but what is the cause of the problem? The reason why we have a fiscal deficit is because of the senseless overspending by the govt in the form of populist schemes to buy votes to stay in power. Dont believe me and label this as bashing? Fine. Read this -


quote:

The answer is that the subsidy budget of the government went through the roof. Things started changing in 2007-08. The projected subsidy bill for the year was Rs 54,330 crore. By the end of the year the government had spent Rs 69,742 crore, or 28 percent more. This was in preparation for the 2009 Lok Sabha elections.

The same thing happened the next year -2008-09. The government budgeted Rs 71,431 crore as subsidies and ended up spending Rs 1,29,243 crore, a whopping 81 percent more. The subsidies were primarily on account of fertiliser, oil and food.

The budgeted subsidies for the current financial year (2012-13) are at Rs 1,90,015 crore, or around 12.7 percent of the total government expenditure. But as has been the case earlier, the government will end up spending much more than this. Even after the Rs 5 increase in diesel price, the oil marketing companies (OMCs) will lose more than Rs 1 lakh crore on selling diesel this year. The total loss on account of selling diesel, kerosene and cooking gas at a loss is estimated to come to Rs 1,67,000 crore.




http://www.firstpost.com/politics/how-manmohans-omelette-cam e-out-as-scrambled-egg-458242.html

So .. when you have a problem with non-productive schemes like NREGA .. on which the UPA govt spent 3 lakh crores till now from 2004-05 .. why dont we cut that wasteful spending and save the "aam aadmi"?
India must conquer the World and nothing less than that is my ideal - Swami Vivekananda

Amra Morbo, Jagat Jagbe (We shall die to awaken the nation) - Bagha Jatin
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Filmbuff
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Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:27 am:   Insert Quote Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have read in passing some of the comments here on FDI in retail. I wanted to stir the mixture a bit and add in my two bit.

Conclusion nunchi begin cheddam first. There is no option but to deregulate fuel prices, LPG and open up FDI in retail, aviation etc. Starting with the economics of this issue, we can't avoid this situation. We have been running a huge current account deficit (CAD) and fiscal deficits. When an economy runs a huge CAD, it can balance these through capital account inflows only. That is why opening up for FDI is crucial - because we need the money, there is no other way. Otherwise we will have even higher inflation, high interest rates, reduced growth etc etc.

While this is a short term solution, we need to correct the continuing deficit issue. You can't talk like the loonies on the left or the right who say that we can't increase fuel prices and we can't take foreign investments. The high CAD because of the former makes the latter inevitable. It is time some joker like Mamata or Bardhan understands that we are forced to open up FDI because of their opposition to fuel price increase.

My issue however is that we always do these on the backfoot. If we were on a stronger wicket, we could have done FDI on our terms. We ideally should have put a condition on US, UK, France etc. that unless they open their economies to our workers we will not open up sectors to them. Labour is one of the two main factors of production apart from capital. Developed countries always want to open up capital so that they can invest. In the same vein, labour should also be allowed to move freely. If our CAD was not so bad and we were not desperate, we could dictated terms to the developed nations so that not just software workers, but even cooks, barbers, painters, farmers etc can go and work in other countries. We have to live with ignominous visa and emigration rules of others.

Another problem i have is that fuel prices are always held out as the only reason for deficits. Take disastrous policies like free power and fee reimbursement. Fee reimbursement costs close to $1 Bn a year in AP. Once you reduce this nonsense, price assets like telecom/coal/ ore etc at market rates, balance sheets will automatically recover and we can command the developed countries at our will like how China does right now.

But that is a dream, unlikely to happen in my generation.

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