| Author | Message | ||
     Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9704 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
There are two answers. First the tactile receptors in your skin tell the other touch neurons in the cortex (the non-mirror neurons) that they are not being touched and this null signal selectively vetos some of the outputs of mirror neurons. This would explain why our amputee experienced touch sensations when he watched our student being touched; the amputation had removed the vetoing. It is a sobering thought that the only barrier between you and others is your skin receptors! Probably maps to the spiritual practise of minimising tactile stimuli by staying absolutly still in meditation to attain the state of empathy and unity and lose the separation - the skin is your boundary of self in more ways than the obvious  aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9703 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Just finished reading and chuckling The man has a very sharp sense of humor which makes even neuroscience entertaining I hasten to add that the involvement of the temporal lobes in mystical experiences does not in itself negate the existence of an abstract God, who, in Hindu philosophy, represents the supreme dissolution of all barriers. Perhaps the TLE patient has seen the truth and most of us haven't. I don't have TLE myself but have had personally had epiphanies when listening to a haunting strain of music, watching the aurora borealis, or looking at Jupiter's moons through a telescope. During such epiphanies I have seen eternity in a moment and divinity in all things. And, indeed, felt one with the Cosmos. There is nothing "true "or "false" about such experiences—they are what they are; simply another way of looking at reality. I might mention that I have long known that prayer was a placebo; but upon learning recently of a study that showed that a drug works even when you know it is a placebo, I immediately started praying. There are two Ramachandrans—one an arch skeptic and the other a devout believer. Fortunately I enjoy this ambiguous state of mind, unlike Darwin who was tormented by it. It is not unlike my enjoyment of an Escher engraving.  reminded me of my disc with Vjavasi in the last thread
You and I both We approached it from two different ends - that's why its been fascinating discussing with you - trying to understand how they work together It just clicked that we have been discussing for almost 5 years - Time flies aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 387 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 135.245.168.34 Rating: N/A |
we have been discussing this for long and i have always been with the view that there is only physical stuff and rest is result of its structure and interactions.elements of consciousness must be integral part of matter/energy. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9696 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
HAve not had time to read the article completely yet. Will read it later.
Yeah - I found it interesting that even the ancients correlated consciousness to brain physiology - but the religious interpretation down the generations of those practices claims separation of the physical and spiritual aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 385 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.184.87.150 Rating: N/A |
the interesting stuff here is Mirror neurons and their role in empathy, language learning, self and culture... enabling Lamarckian or cultural inheritance. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 384 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.184.87.150 Rating: N/A |
hmmm..interesting... Research & general acceptance Trepanation is not accepted as an alternative therapy by any mainstream physicians or surgeons in the United States or Canada. In addition to the dangers of the procedure itself, neurosurgeons who have studied the claims made for trepanation say that Huges' brainbloodvolume theory is anatomically impossible. Other people who have undergone trepanation, however, maintain that these benefits are only temporary and may be due to the placebo effect. A man who performed trepanation on himself in 2000 reported to an interviewer from an online body modification journal that he had "come to the frustrating conclusion [four weeks after the procedure] that the trepanation has had no lasting effect… Trepanation has no more physiological effect than any other trauma… it does not do what many hope it will." .......... may be it does not work for all and unsustainable. | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9694 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 167.24.104.150 Rating: N/A |
Read in vearious texts, including recently in Lobsang Rampa's Third Eye But here's an article that may give you an idea... http://www.altmd.com/Articles/Trepanation--Encyclopedia-of-A lternative-Medicine aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 383 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.184.87.150 Rating: N/A |
yes. but he covered more in this article i think. there seems a small discrepancy between what he said in a video and this article about self and qualia. i remember he kind of saying self and qualia problems cannot be solved separately and without self there would not be conscioussness or qualia and vice versa. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 382 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.184.87.150 Rating: N/A |
No. i have not read this. any links? | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9692 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: N/A |
HAve you read about trepanation ? Making a hole in the skull to increase consciousness? There are references to it in all old religions - some did it it at the third eyw spot , some at the brahmarandhram spot on the crown. Always was intrigued why physical intervention in the brain was needed/or aided increased consciousness of soul aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Anand_n Side Hero Username: Anand_n Post Number: 9689 Registered: 02-2008 Posted From: 70.120.91.149 Rating: N/A |
Love his lectures Amazing work on the brain and an excellent speaker too I remember seeing his lecture on Self and Qualia..covered a lot of this material. But will read the article a lil later aa chal ke tujhe main leke chalu ik aise gagan ke tale jahan gam bhi na ho, aansoo bhi na ho,bas pyaar hi pyaar pale | ||
| Jcgaru Side Hero Username: Jcgaru Post Number: 3242 Registered: 01-2011 Posted From: 75.221.127.139 Rating: N/A |
Temporal lobe epilepsy is something that every one of us should be aware of.....especially blind followers of some babas or mullahs or whateva | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 381 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.241.89.229 Rating: N/A |
interesting musings on Mirror Neurons and Bing bangs in evolution at http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/ramachandran/ramachandran_in dex.html | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 379 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.241.89.229 Rating: N/A |
I mention these to emphasize that despite all the pride that your self takes in its individuality and privacy, the only thing that separates you from me is a small subset of neural circuits in your frontal lobes interacting with mirror neurons. Damage these and you "lose your identity"—your sensory system starts blending with those of others. Like the proverbial Mary of philosopher's thought experiments, you experience their qualia. Let us turn now to out-of-body experiences. Even a normal person—such as the reader—can at times adopt a "detached" allocentric stance toward yourself (employing something like mirror neurons) but this doesn't become a full blown delusion because other neural systems (e.g. inhibition from fontal structures and skin receptors ) keep you anchored. But damage to the right fronto-parietal regions or ketamine anesthesia (which may influence the same circuits) removes the inhibition and you start leaving your body even to the extent of not feeling your own pain. You see your pain "objectively" as if someone else was experiencing it. Some such opossum-like detachment also occurs in dire emergencies when you momentarily leave yourself and watch your body being raped or mauled by a lion. This reflex is normally protective (lying still to fool predators) but a vestige of it in humans may manifest as "dissociative" states under conditions of extreme stress. | ||
| Nisarga Junior Artist Username: Nisarga Post Number: 377 Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 115.241.89.229 Rating: N/A |
Ramachandra rocks. cogent explanations to problems of Self and Qualia. http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/rama08/rama08_index.html Excerpts: Neurological conditions have shown that the self is not the monolithic entity it believes itself to be. It seems to consist of many components each of which can be studied individually, and the notion of one unitary self may well be an illusion. (But if so we need to ask how the illusion arises; was it an adaptation acquired through natural selection?) Out of body experiences: patients with right fronto-parietal strokes report floating out into space watching their body down below—undoubtedly contributing to the myth of disembodied souls. Left hemisphere strokes result in the feeling of a mysterious presence—a phantom twin—hovering behind the patient's left shoulder. Apotemnophilia: An otherwise completely normal person develops an intense desire to have his arm or leg amputated. The right parietal (a part of it known a SPL) normally contains a complete internal image of the body. We showed recently that in these patients the part of the map corresponding to the affected limb is congenitally missing, leading to alienation of the limb. Transsexuality; A woman claims that for as far back as she can remember she felt she was a man trapped in a woman's body—even experiencing phantom penises and erections. Our ordinary notion of every person having a single sexual identity (or self) is called into question. It turns out there are at least four distinct aspects of sexuality; your external anatomy, your internal brain-based body image, your sexual orientation and your sexual identity—who you think others think of you as. Normally these are harmonized in fetal development but if they get uncoupled you become a transsexual person. (It is important to note there is nothing "abnormal" about them, any more than you would regard being gay as abnormal.) In another disorder the patient, with damage to the anterior cingulate develops "akinetic mutism". He lies in bed fully awake and alert but cannot talk or walk—indeed doesn't interact in any way with people or things around him. Sometimes such patients wake up (when given certain drugs ) and will say "I knew what was going on around me but I simply had no desire to do anything ". It was if he had selective loss of one major attribute of the self— free will". |
