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Indus valley civilization ended ~8000...

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Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 01:38 am:       


Tilak:

settlements ki civilizations ki teda enti?




settlement ante emi ledu..oka group of people following their life style..ante ippudu..suppose adavi manushulu vunnaru..they have their own customs.. based on perception of "civilized" people like us they are un civilised...even though forest dwellers think themselves as civilized...
Most important requirement to call a society a civilized is it should have urban population..
Hence historians accept a particular society as civilization only if it has these traits...
1) Society needs to Urbanized.
2) Society must not only depend on Agriculture...that means there should be other means of occupation. There should be trade and commerce.
3) Art forms vundaali..like dancing..sculpting
4) Tools tho panicheyyali, domestication cheyyali
5) Writing vacchi vundaali...Time ane concept telisi vundaali..society lo oka hierarchy vundaali i.e., ruling class and etc ...religion anedi vundaali ...and many more..

ee cheppina points Settlement ki vundaalsina avasaram ledu....anduke settlement is not a civilization but civilization is definitely a settlement..

That is the reason historians paina cheppina 5 points tally ayyake civilization time period start chestaaru...for Mesapatomia and Egypt ee traits Indus-Saraswati Valley ki munde vunnayi ani intha varaku dorikuna chaarithraka aadhaaraalu chebutunnai..

Paiga ee news times of India vaadi cheppatam kaadu ... settlements in Indus Valley started in 7000BC anedi yeppudo andariki telusu...I already quoted Mehrgarh, Pakistan which was oldest settlement of Indus Valley..now Bhiranni in Haryana is considered oldest..

this is a pretty cheap journalism and sensationalism..of course I wont expect much from TOI though..
 

Tilak
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 09:45 pm:       


Bharateeyudu:

If one talks about Settlements instead of Civilisations for Egypt it is from 9000 BC and for Mesapotomia it is 12000 BC..


settlements ki civilizations ki teda enti?
NaMo - Parrikar - Gadkari - Prabhu - Piyush - Uma Bharti - Sushma
 

Ringo_rangaswamy
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:04 pm:       


Tilak:





Delhi fake historians ki idi pedda shock - 8000 years old anna fact kaadu, aa fact ittlaa TOI laanti accepted mainsteam lo batta bayalu avvatam.
 

Cocanada
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 04:41 pm:       

Bharateeyudu brother

What is your take on Mahabharata? Is it history or myth? If history, what time period did it happen?
 

Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:04 pm:       

By the way time line of Indus Civilisation is still 3000-1300 BC...
 

Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 02:56 pm:       

Indian archaeologists always wanted to prove Indus valley originated in India instead of usually said words by western media " originated in Pakistan and Afghan..". Mehrgarh which was the oldest Indus valley site which dates 7000 BC is in pakistan..

and Indians wanted to rename Indus Valley as Indus-Saraswati Valley Civilizations..and their research was always based on river Saraswati..or modern day Ghaggar-Hakra river..

and they gained the impetus in 2014 , when KN Dikshit excavated "Bhiranni" and said it is the oldest Indus valley site.. dating to 7600 BC and in 2014 they discovered Rakhigarhi the biggest Harappan site ..bigger than Mohenjadoro..

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-c ulture/rakhigarhi-the-biggest-harappan-site/article5840414.e ce

The paper written by IIT scientists never quoted Indus valley is older than Egypt or Mesapotomian...they were only quoting how Indus valley Civilisation declined .. based on their study they deduced apart from Climate even the change in agricultural pattern was responsible for demise of Indus Valley..

Nee headline chusi aa IIT scientists thala baadukuntaaru memu ila yemi annamu ani..

for those who are interested to read the paper submitted by IIT scientists
this is the link
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep26555
 

Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 02:34 pm:       

3) Scientists from IIT-Kharagpur and Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) have uncovered evidence that the Indus Valley Civilization is at least 8,000 years old, and not 5,500 years old, taking root well before the Egyptian (7000BC to 3000BC) and Mesopotamian (6500BC to 3100BC) civilizations. What's more, the researchers have found evidence of a pre-Harappan civilization that existed for at least 1,000 years before this.


This a paragraph reported in TOI.. I dont know how he came to conlusion that Egyptian ( 7000 BC TO 3000 BC) and Mesapotamian (6500 BC to 3100 BC)...

Mr TOI...FYI Egyptian Civilisation dates.(3100 BC to 525 BC) and Mesapotomian from ( 6000 BC TO 1200 BC)...

If one talks about Settlements instead of Civilisations for Egypt it is from 9000 BC and for Mesapotomia it is 12000 BC..

4) And you Mr TOI...it is not IIT scientists who deduced settlement of
"Saraswati" valley to 7600 BC..but they cited a book which said this..that book is written in 2006
 

Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 12:54 pm:       

I am posting this not to undermine work of scientists .. but irresponsible reporting by TOI..when I saw Tilak's link I was stumped because how on the earth "The Hindu" did not report it which will change the dates in history
...then I continued to read the report by TOI.. as usual the "reporting was baseless with so many flaws" and it did not give link source of the report..."

1)This lead to me to search for the report in "Nature" journal as reported by TOI..unfortunately I couldn't get any information from Nature..and later found out that its published in "Scientific Reports" a journal by publishers of Nature ...This is what it is written about Scientific Reports in their website..

Scientific Reports is an online, open access journal from the publishers of Nature. We publish scientifically valid primary research from all areas of the natural and clinical sciences.

The first mistake of TOI is the article was not reported in Nature but was reported in Scientific Reports..

2) The second mistake is reporter probably does not even understand English..This is the title of paper that IIT Scientists submitted..

Implications to climate change and decline of Bronze Age Harappan civilization

any sane lay man would think the paper will talk about how Indus valley declined..and this is what the conclusion of abstract of the paper says..

Our study suggests that other cause like change in subsistence strategy by shifting crop patterns rather than climate change was responsible for Harappan collapse.

The paper concludes with this sentence Our study suggests possibility of a direct connect between climate, agriculture and subsistence pattern during the Harappan civilization.

and more over The paper never tried to say Indus valley Civilization ... the word Civilization is important here...started from 7600 BC... how on the earth TOI came to that conclusion..???

(Continued)
 

Bharateeyudu
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 11:44 am:       

bushkiyaan... by toi...
 

Tilak
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 09:18 am:       


quote:

KOLKATA: It may be time to rewrite history textbooks. Scientists from IIT-Kharagpur and Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) have uncovered evidence that the Indus Valley Civilization is at least 8,000 years old, and not 5,500 years old, taking root well before the Egyptian (7000BC to 3000BC) and Mesopotamian (6500BC to 3100BC) civilizations. What's more, the researchers have found evidence of a pre-Harappan civilization that existed for at least 1,000 years before this.

The discovery, published in the prestigious 'Nature' journal on May 25, may force a global rethink on the timelines of the so-called 'cradles of civilization'. The scientists believe they also know why the civilization ended about 3,000 years ago — climate change.

"We have recovered perhaps the oldest pottery from the civilization. We used a technique called 'optically stimulated luminescence' to date pottery shards of the Early Mature Harappan time to nearly 6,000 years ago and the cultural levels of pre-Harappan Hakra phase as far back as 8,000 years," said Anindya Sarkar, head of the department of geology and geophysics at IIT-Kgp.

The team had actually set out to prove that the civilization proliferated to other Indian sites like Bhirrana and Rakhigarrhi in Haryana, apart from the known locations of Harappa and Mohenjo Daro in Pakistan and Lothal, Dholavira and Kalibangan in India. They took their dig to an unexplored site, Bhirrana — and ended up unearthing something much bigger. The excavation also yielded large quantities of animal remains like bones, teeth, horn cores of cow, goat, deer and antelope, which were put through Carbon 14 analysis to decipher antiquity and the climatic conditions in which the civilization flourished, said Arati Deshpande Mukherjee of Deccan College, which helped analyse the finds along with Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad.

The researchers believe that the Indus Valley Civilization spread over a vast expanse of India — stretching to the banks of the now "lost" Saraswati river or the Ghaggar-Hakra river - but this has not been studied enough because what we know so far is based on British excavations. "At the excavation sites, we saw preservation of all cultural levels right from the pre-Indus Valley Civilization phase (9000-8000 BC) through what we have categorised as Early Harappan (8000-7000BC) to the Mature Harappan times," said Sarkar.

While the earlier phases were represented by pastoral and early village farming communities, the mature Harappan settlements were highly urbanised with organised cities, and a much developed material and craft culture. They also had regular trade with Arabia and Mesopotamia. The Late Harappan phase witnessed large-scale de-urbanisation, drop in population, abandonment of established settlements, lack of basic amenities, violence and even the disappearance of the Harappan script, the researchers say.

"We analysed the oxygen isotope composition in the bone and tooth phosphates of these remains to unravel the climate pattern. The oxygen isotope in mammal bones and teeth preserve the signature of ancient meteoric water and in turn the intensity of monsoon rainfall. Our study shows that the pre-Harappan humans started inhabiting this area along the Ghaggar-Hakra rivers in a climate that was favourable for human settlement and agriculture. The monsoon was much stronger between 9000 years and 7000 years from now and probably fed these rivers making them mightier with vast floodplains," explained Deshpande Mukherjee.

Indus Valley evolved even as monsoon declined

They took their dig to an unexplored site, Bhirrana — and ended up unearthing something much bigger. The excavation also yielded large quantities of animal remains like bones, teeth, horn cores of cow, goat, deer and antelope, which were put through Carbon 14 analysis to decipher antiquity and the climatic conditions in which the civilization flourished, said Arati Deshpande Mukherjee of Deccan College, which helped analyse the finds along with Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad.

The researchers believe that the Indus Valley Civilization spread over a vast expanse of India — stretching to the banks of the now "lost" Saraswati river or the Ghaggar-Hakra river — but this has not been studied enough because what we know so far is based on British excavations. "At the excavation sites, we saw preservation of all cultural levels right from the pre-Indus Valley Civilisation phase (9,000-8,000 years ago) through what we have categorised as Early Harappan (8,000-7,000 years ago) to the Mature Harappan times," said Sarkar.

The late Harappan phase witnessed large-scale de-urbanisation, drop in population, abandonment of established settlements, violence and even the disappearance of the Harappan script, the researchers say. The study revealed that monsoon started weakening 7,000 years ago but, surprisingly, the civilization did not disappear.

The Indus Valley people were very resolute and flexible and continued to evolve even in the face of declining monsoon. The people shifted their crop patterns from large-grained cereals like wheat and barley during the early part of intensified monsoon to drought-resistant species like rice in the latter part. As the yield diminished, the organised large storage system of the Mature Harappan period gave way to more individual household-based crop processing and storage systems that acted as a catalyst for the de-urbanisation of the civilization rather than an abrupt collapse, they say.




http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indus-era-8000-year s-old-not-5500-ended-because-of-weaker-monsoon/articleshow/5 2485332.cms
"We are Indians, firstly and lastly." - Dr. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar

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